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Postby bigh0rt » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:43 pm

speedy27 wrote:
SHOCKandAWE wrote:I still say the two biggest problems with kids doing bad in school these day are"

#1 Parents

#2 Video Games

School is like work. It is called work for a reason. If you do not try and do well you will not do well.

Most of the time when kids do poor in school it is because they suck at being students.



agreed...but i'd put Lack of proper Discipline towards students is another reason they act as they do. If we could just bring back the 'ol board and bust some butt, most will straighten up!!


That again begins with the parents. 20 years ago you didn't hear parents saying things like, "I just can't control him!" referring to their children. How are teachers supposed to instill discipline, when its a completely foreign concept to the child? That's what gives it its power to begin with.
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Postby sportsaddict » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:45 pm

SHOCKandAWE wrote:I still say the two biggest problems with kids doing bad in school these day are"

#1 Parents

#2 Video Games

School is like work. It is called work for a reason. If you do not try and do well you will not do well.

Most of the time when kids do poor in school it is because they suck at being students.


That's exactly the problem. I'm serious when I say that every single kid in America could be a good student if they wanted to be. If you at least try and keep up with school, do your homework, listen in class, get the help you need, you can get by with a C average. Kids who fail could pass if they wanted to. They just don't care. And usually they don't care because their parents don't care. It comes down to parents putting pressure on their children to perform, and when they don't, the results are ugly.

Video games aren't helping but they aren't the sole reason, they are just one of many factors along with kids just being lazy in general nowadays.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:26 am

SHOCKandAWE wrote:School is like work. It is called work for a reason. If you do not try and do well you will not do well.


That's not totally true, if you play your cards right, you can skate through w/o doing a lot of work and still compile a relatively distinguished academic record.

I think that NCLB is not going to fix what the problem is which is that society does not value intelligence. It values 'style' and 'bling' and other vague terms that are marketed via an MTV sort of cultural mafia and basically teach kids that being smart is not kewl. Parents themselves race home from work, zap dinner and plunk on their butts in front of American Idol and we wonder where NCLB comes from?
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Postby Madison » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:14 am

bigh0rt wrote:
speedy27 wrote:
SHOCKandAWE wrote:I still say the two biggest problems with kids doing bad in school these day are"

#1 Parents

#2 Video Games

School is like work. It is called work for a reason. If you do not try and do well you will not do well.

Most of the time when kids do poor in school it is because they suck at being students.



agreed...but i'd put Lack of proper Discipline towards students is another reason they act as they do. If we could just bring back the 'ol board and bust some butt, most will straighten up!!


That again begins with the parents. 20 years ago you didn't hear parents saying things like, "I just can't control him!" referring to their children. How are teachers supposed to instill discipline, when its a completely foreign concept to the child? That's what gives it its power to begin with.


Totally agree. We got "pops" (that's what they were called back then) in school, and my parents were in total support of it. ;-D


I disagree that videogames, movies, music, television, or anything like that is what's causing kids to be dumber nowadays. It all boils down to parents not being parents anymore in my eyes. My son knows he answers to me for problems and/or bad grades in school, or any behavior problems whatsoever. He's 8 years old, loves his PS2 and Game Boy Advance SP, watches anything he wants to on television (cable - so there are plenty of options), likes Eminem's music (among others), watches WWE wrestling and other violent programming, yet he knows what's real and important and what isn't. He also loves to play outside. Given the choice of playing in his room or playing outside, he'll take outside every single time. Just took 3rd place in the entire 3rd grade of his school (over 300 students) for his science fair project, and they are shipping it to regionals. He's not Little Mr. Perfect by any means, he gets his A's and B's with an occasional C here and there, along with a behavior problem here and there (mostly talking too much - wonder where he got that from....?), and I'm by far and away not the perfect father, but it really doesn't take all that much to teach a kid right from wrong and how the world works if you start when they are born. If parents would do their jobs as parents instead of making excuses and blaming everything and everyone except themselves, everything would be so much easier in the world.
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Postby Pablo975 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:24 am

As a family member of mine is fond of saying:

"Many parents today treat their kids as though they are best friends. Guess what? Your kids don't need you as the best friend, they need you as their PARENT."
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Postby bigh0rt » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:36 am

Pablo975 wrote:As a family member of mine is fond of saying:

"Many parents today treat their kids as though they are best friends. Guess what? Your kids don't need you as the best friend, they need you as their PARENT."


I see a ton of this as a coach. So many parents are infatuated with letting their kids make their own decisions at the age of 9 and 10, and insist that they do what they want, etc. I'm like, they're 10, it's still your job to figure out what's right for them; they're not quite at the point yet where they can decide a whole heck of a lot for themselves... they don't even decide what they're wearing tomorrow, most of them...

Ugh, frustrating.
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Postby Yoda » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:50 am

Madison wrote:The biggest problem with the program is that some kids are just flat dumb. Some kids will fail. Simple as that, but the state doesn't want the public to see a high percentage of kids failing. Less people move into the state, more move away, it hurts the economy, makes the state look bad, makes the school system look bad, etc, and that's what the state is looking at.

Instead, they should be happy when a kid fails. That's one less idiot with a diploma, and one less idiot "free" upon the world.

I actually saw this the other day......true story.....kids had 30 minutes to do a 100 problem math paper. One student didn't finish in time and only answered 58 questions. He got them all correct, so that gave him a grade of 58. The teacher told him not to worry about it because she was going to give him a "class participation grade" of 82, which would balance that 50 out to a 70. WHAT? 8-o

So an idiot kid has now passed because the state is worried about how it looks to the other states when the percentage of kids failing is too high? 8-o

Terrible....simply terrible.

Swallow your pride schools, and actually start failing those idiot kids rather than trying to make yourselves look better! It's not helping anyone to keep giving diplomas away like they are toilet paper. It doesn't help to threaten schools, threaten teachers, refuse funding, etc, in order to falsely boost the passing numbers (yes, I'm looking at you Federal Government!). :-t


Nice post. There is nothing as stupid as this program instituted by our so-called president. Then again, he is the same guy who coasted through school and life to one day become the president so...
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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Postby RugbyD » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:16 am

he onyl redeeming quality of NCLB is that is offers parents a way to get their kids out of the schools that really are complete garbage. This threatens the status quo that is so valued by the teachers' unions, NEA, and general public scholl administrative structure. Clear evidence of this is that there is a serious problem with the bad schools making it as haard as possible, and sometime almost impossible, for parents to get information on how to get their kids out of thre and into a charter or provate school. This is information that they are supposed to be providing openly and actively.

That said, the costs, in terms of dollars, admin, wasted class time, etc, by far outweigh th benefits of the program. Macro solutions don't solve local problems.
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Postby Coppermine » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:51 am

RugbyD wrote:
That said, the costs, in terms of dollars, admin, wasted class time, etc, by far outweigh th benefits of the program. Macro solutions don't solve local problems.


Agreed, and it is a lot of local problems. I went to a huge high school in a fairly affluent area; facilities were top notch, academic competition was fierce and there was school-wide motivation to go to college and be successful.

My girlfriend works at a school consisting of mostly low-income families and a general redneck "I don't care" attitude. Dropout rates are, college enrollment is low and test scores justs plain suck. Student behavior is horrible, at best. I never experienced much of any of this in HS and I went to one with 2500 students.

And then the good teachers don't want to work at the crappy schools, so it's just a vicious cycle of sucky education for those who need it, an excellent education for those who really don't.
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Postby Absolutely Adequate » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:14 am

Coppermine wrote:
RugbyD wrote:
That said, the costs, in terms of dollars, admin, wasted class time, etc, by far outweigh th benefits of the program. Macro solutions don't solve local problems.


Agreed, and it is a lot of local problems. I went to a huge high school in a fairly affluent area; facilities were top notch, academic competition was fierce and there was school-wide motivation to go to college and be successful.

My girlfriend works at a school consisting of mostly low-income families and a general redneck "I don't care" attitude. Dropout rates are, college enrollment is low and test scores justs plain suck. Student behavior is horrible, at best. I never experienced much of any of this in HS and I went to one with 2500 students.

And then the good teachers don't want to work at the crappy schools, so it's just a vicious cycle of sucky education for those who need it, an excellent education for those who really don't.


The part about good teachers not wanting to work at crappy schools isn't true. It's a challenge and many good teachers strive for it. I teach at a crappy school: The second-worst school in one of the worst districts in the US. The teacher next door taught at Ivy League schools for 15 years before deciding he could do more good in the ghetto. The teacher on the other side of my room quietly buys uniforms for the students who can't afford it. As for me, I took my kids on a field-trip last Saturday, without school permission or knowledge because I knew they'd never approve a trip to the Library of Congress. I spent my Saturday sneaking kids into the LoC, helping them research, and then buying them lunch. It cost me about 6 hours and 300 dollars.

End of rant.

There are a lot of problems with schools, obviously. But we'll never even scratch the surface of them in this thread. They're deeper than some Presidential decree. But this particular decree isn't helping at all. It's actively hurting our kids. And it's up for renewal this year. We should all do our best to make sure our Senators and Congressmen vote to scrap this thing post-haste.
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