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Logic Prevails

Postby ironman » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:02 pm

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Re: Logic Prevails

Postby Coppermine » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:13 pm



Woo hoo! This is excellent news and hopefully will set some sort of educational precedent. Nearby York repealed the "intelligent design" motion a year ago.

Honestly, I don't understand the hangup with this... and I don't understand why people can't just believe what they want while leaving public schools to teach science.
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Postby chadlincoln » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:19 pm

Parents should be the ones to teach their kids about religion anyways. They shouldn't leave it up to churches and schools to do so. Evolution on the other hand, takes faith to believe in also. So if we all evolved, why can't I do whatever I want to whoever I want? Where do we get our moral foundation? Why is killing wrong then?
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Postby BGbootha » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:20 pm

yeah all the science teachers here at school are talking about it. Pretty big deal for a kansas debate that has been going strong for quite a few years.
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Postby josebach » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:28 pm

chadlincoln wrote:Parents should be the ones to teach their kids about religion anyways. They shouldn't leave it up to churches and schools to do so. Evolution on the other hand, takes faith to believe in also. So if we all evolved, why can't I do whatever I want to whoever I want? Where do we get our moral foundation? Why is killing wrong then?


Having faith in religion and having faith in a hypothesis based on physical evidence and scientific principles is nowhere close to being the same thing. Knapp strongly disagrees with me on this and thinks that all faith is exactly the same. That was a fun debate, wasn't it Knapp? ;-)

*edit* fixed type Os
Last edited by josebach on Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Coppermine » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:28 pm

chadlincoln wrote:Parents should be the ones to teach their kids about religion anyways. They shouldn't leave it up to churches and schools to do so. Evolution on the other hand, takes faith to believe in also. So if we all evolved, why can't I do whatever I want to whoever I want? Where do we get our moral foundation? Why is killing wrong then?


I think that's an excellent point, and the study of sociology attempts to answer a lot of those questions; I enjoy reading a lot of sociology books for fun, it was my favorite college course.

In fact I believe there is a whole branch of sociology that deals with the study of ethics and morals in human society since the advent of civilization and how different things have shaped our perception of morals, but that a foundation of right and wrong has almost always existed.
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Postby BGbootha » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:35 pm

chadlincoln wrote:So if we all evolved, why can't I do whatever I want to whoever I want? Where do we get our moral foundation? Why is killing wrong then?


I find it very insulting that people always tie morals and good people to religion. I consider myself a very moral athiest. Religion has nothing to do with understanding what is right and wrong.

The golden rule, may be tied to Jesus, but it has been around long before he has. Common sense and general courtesy to fellow human beings and ourselves has nothing to do with religion.
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Postby josebach » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:36 pm

BGbootha wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:So if we all evolved, why can't I do whatever I want to whoever I want? Where do we get our moral foundation? Why is killing wrong then?


I find it very insulting that people always tie morals and good people to religion. I consider myself a very moral athiest. Religion has nothing to do with understanding what is right and wrong.

The golden rule, may be tied to Jesus, but it has been around long before he has. Common sense and general courtesy to fellow human beings and ourselves has nothing to do with religion.


Exactly, it's called being civilized.
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Postby chadlincoln » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:50 pm

BGbootha wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:So if we all evolved, why can't I do whatever I want to whoever I want? Where do we get our moral foundation? Why is killing wrong then?


I find it very insulting that people always tie morals and good people to religion. I consider myself a very moral athiest. Religion has nothing to do with understanding what is right and wrong.

The golden rule, may be tied to Jesus, but it has been around long before he has. Common sense and general courtesy to fellow human beings and ourselves has nothing to do with religion.
My question to you is what defines right an act to be right or wrong?
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Postby Coppermine » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:52 pm

chadlincoln wrote:
BGbootha wrote:
chadlincoln wrote:So if we all evolved, why can't I do whatever I want to whoever I want? Where do we get our moral foundation? Why is killing wrong then?


I find it very insulting that people always tie morals and good people to religion. I consider myself a very moral athiest. Religion has nothing to do with understanding what is right and wrong.

The golden rule, may be tied to Jesus, but it has been around long before he has. Common sense and general courtesy to fellow human beings and ourselves has nothing to do with religion.
My question to you is what defines right an act to be right or wrong?


The concept of "right and wrong" existed before religion; I'm not saying it's not divinely motivated, I have no way of knowing that.... but morals and religion, throughout history, have been largely mutually exclusive.

In fact, you don't have to go far back in history to find some religiously motivated atrocities, from the Crusades and the Inquisition, to the Salem witch trials, to the terror attacks of 9/11.
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