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Postby Madison » Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:53 am

mightyian5 wrote:i think its alot more speculation than actual expectations. do any of you guys REALLy expect that much of an overhaul? i really dont know if that yankees team will change all that much. well at least i doubt the offense will. they dont have much of a pitching staff with all of those options turned down and clemens retiring.

by the way, im wondering why pettite is deamed such an asset. i know hes one of their few farm boys, and hes a lefty, but looking back at his stats, theyre not all that impressive. his strikeout totals werent all that high, and his era was over 4 many years, with one year being as high as 4.70. the only standout were his wins, usually accompanied by 10 or so losses. even batters avg against him were very high for such a valued pitcher. just seems kind of strange. fill me in on anything im missing here. maybe im not seeing a bigger picture or something.


Nah, I agree with you. Pettitte is overrated in my humble opinion. Yes, he goes out and pitches every 5th day, but his win totals are misleading. Era/whip/k's matter more to me than wins. Obviously in real life, Pettitte is more valuable to the Yankees than he is to us in the fantasy world.
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:59 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Because Pettitte is a gamer and he is a proven playoff performer. I don't care what his regular season stats are. When playoff time comes around, there is no one on that team that I would rather have on the mound, unless it's the 8th or 9th inning and his name is Mariano Rivera.


Gamer? Yea hes proven allright. That hes the same mediocre pitcher in postseason, that he is during the year.
In 8 world series games before this year, he had a 5.08 era. A record of 2-3. Lets look back.

96 ws 5.91 era
99 ws 12.27 era
01 ws 10.00 era

His overall postseason era in 25 games was less then stellar at 4.49. The guy is the most overhyped pitcher east of the Mississippi.


As far as that article. Anyone silly enough to give Colon 70 mil, and Tejada 75 mil, deserves to lose.


As a Yankee hater and someone who probably winces when the Yanks are in the postseason and might or might not even watch when they get in the postseason, I am not surprised by your statements. There are times when you take the numbers and throw them out the window. There were games that skew those numbers big time (ie. Game 1 in 1996, etc.). If you would have watched him in this postseason, then this wouldn't even be an issue. I urge you not to just look at the numbers in the future and actually study them.

I also wonder why there is no mention of Game 5 against Smoltz in 1996 or Game 4 against Brown in 1998 or nothing about 2000. 8-o For the stinkers that he has thrown in the postseason, and when you get in that much, they are bound to happen, he still has a 10-7 record with a 4.49 ERA, not including this year. Finally, this year, in many games that they needed to win, he was 3-1 with a 2.10 ERA in the postseason. Since you like to look at the World Series numbers, how does 1-1 with a 0.57 ERA sound?
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:01 pm

Madison wrote:Obviously in real life, Pettitte is more valuable to the Yankees than he is to us in the fantasy world.


Exactly. Anyone who watched him in this past postseason knows that. He is a gamer. I don't even care about the numbers.
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Postby Madison » Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:09 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Madison wrote:Obviously in real life, Pettitte is more valuable to the Yankees than he is to us in the fantasy world.


Exactly. Anyone who watched him in this past postseason knows that. He is a gamer. I don't even care about the numbers.


If the Rangers would get a couple of guys like Pettitte, just go out and have a 4 to 4.25 era, and occasionally have a really good game, the Rangers would be contenders. We've got the hitting. Just need some solid, not spectacular, pitching.
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:19 pm

Madison wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Madison wrote:Obviously in real life, Pettitte is more valuable to the Yankees than he is to us in the fantasy world.


Exactly. Anyone who watched him in this past postseason knows that. He is a gamer. I don't even care about the numbers.


If the Rangers would get a couple of guys like Pettitte, just go out and have a 4 to 4.25 era, and occasionally have a really good game, the Rangers would be contenders. We've got the hitting. Just need some solid, not spectacular, pitching.


Agreed. What all of the numbers hounds don't realize is that he puts up good numbers but has a few stinkers mixed in there. It's not necessarily a consistent 4.25 ERA, if you know what I mean. I hope that I just made sense.
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Postby HOOTIE » Fri Nov 07, 2003 2:44 am

Lofunzo wrote:
As a Yankee hater and someone who probably winces when the Yanks are in the postseason and might or might not even watch when they get in the postseason, I am not surprised by your statements. There are times when you take the numbers and throw them out the window. There were games that skew those numbers big time (ie. Game 1 in 1996, etc.). If you would have watched him in this postseason, then this wouldn't even be an issue. I urge you not to just look at the numbers in the future and actually study them.

I also wonder why there is no mention of Game 5 against Smoltz in 1996 or Game 4 against Brown in 1998 or nothing about 2000. 8-o For the stinkers that he has thrown in the postseason, and when you get in that much, they are bound to happen, he still has a 10-7 record with a 4.49 ERA, not including this year. Finally, this year, in many games that they needed to win, he was 3-1 with a 2.10 ERA in the postseason. Since you like to look at the World Series numbers, how does 1-1 with a 0.57 ERA sound?


My like or dislike for NY has nothing to do with Pettittes evaluation. A gamer, doesnt get banged around like Andy has. Yes, Andys thrown some gems. But hes Dr. Heckyl and Mr. Hyde. You don't know if you get a 2 run outing or a 6 run outing. The numbers are there. As a person with a NYY avatar, perhaps it's you with the favortism? Gibson and Koufax were gamers. Check their post season stats.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:34 am

HOOTIE wrote:My like or dislike for NY has nothing to do with Pettittes evaluation. A gamer, doesnt get banged around like Andy has. Yes, Andys thrown some gems. But hes Dr. Heckyl and Mr. Hyde. You don't know if you get a 2 run outing or a 6 run outing. The numbers are there. As a person with a NYY avatar, perhaps it's you with the favortism? Gibson and Koufax were gamers. Check their post season stats.


That's the thing. I don't need to check the stats. I just watch the games. There are plenty of pitchers that make me nervous out there in crunch time and Pettitte isn't 1 of them.
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Postby sphincty jr » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:40 am

Petitte is not he same pitcher now that he has been for most of his career. He is much much better now. Anyone that can't see this will be dissapointed on draft day.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:43 am

sphincty jr wrote:Petitte is not he same pitcher now that he has been for most of his career. He is much much better now. Anyone that can't see this will be dissapointed on draft day.


I agree with that 100%. He has gone back to the changeup, which I have wanted him to for years and he is also mixing in some high fastballs, to offset the cutter. All pitchers have off days. His just happen to be worse than others.
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Postby HOOTIE » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:46 am

Lofunzo wrote:
Madison wrote:Obviously in real life, Pettitte is more valuable to the Yankees than he is to us in the fantasy world.


Exactly. Anyone who watched him in this past postseason knows that. He is a gamer. I don't even care about the numbers.


He had a nice 03 postseason. He needed it after quite a few bad ones. In 28 career post season starts, he has only 15 quality starts. 15/28, barely half. You call him a gamer, i call him barely above average, which is where his regular career numbers put him as well.
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