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Make Your Case: A. Ramirez vs. G. Atkins

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Postby buckwild13 » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:21 am

just to let everyone know about that ESPN ADP. that is from last year. this years has not been updated. go to the phillies and look at ryan howard. there is no way he is going that late. however it seems like thats where he went last year. so dont look at espn ADP. look at yahoo and those 2 are going pretty much at the same time
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Postby AcidRock23 » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:34 am

buckwild13 wrote:just to let everyone know about that ESPN ADP. that is from last year. this years has not been updated. go to the phillies and look at ryan howard. there is no way he is going that late. however it seems like thats where he went last year. so dont look at espn ADP. look at yahoo and those 2 are going pretty much at the same time


D'oh... :*) !+) thanks for the correction....I have not been focused on drafting but on $values as we are switching to an auction this year so I will shut up!! arrgh...
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Postby josebach » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:27 am

At first I was going to say A-Ram in Roto and Atkins in H2H, but even in roto, I think I'd take Atkins. Taking only the traditional 5 hitting categories into effect, A-Ram has never had year like Atkins did last year. Those choosing A-Ram must believe that

1) A-Ram will have a career year
2) Atkins will regress and not get better

I'm not convinced at all that either one of these will happen, which makes my decision pretty easy.
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Re: ...

Postby Jackie Treehorn » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:14 pm

Ender wrote:
Jackie Treehorn wrote:
ukrneal wrote:I don't entirely understand people here. I understand that Aram could be considered a safer choice. I dont agree, but I understand.

What I don't understand is how Atkins is risky. Many are saying he doesn't have a track record. So why would you take Howard or Reyes or Wright over him (Aram)? These guys have no more track record than Atkins. Why aren't they risky? I can't imagine anyone here taking Atkins or Aram before either of those three (or others like Morneau, Utley, Sizemore, etc.).

Why is Atkins penalized for having ONLY a two-year track record and the others I listed are not? It seems like there is an inconsistency in approach.

Perhaps it's because he is in a small market and doesn't get the attention? I never believed in that, but maybe it does have an effect.


This here dude makes a pretty freakin' good point. Why is Reyes a unanimous top 5? He of the bad hamstring and one year dominance, while the argument of "he only did it for one year, show me more" applies to Atkins.


Well in 2005 Reyes earned $29 and Atkins earned $17. There is a pretty huge gap between these guys. Reyes has had a year of 2nd round value followed by a year of 1st round and is at a scarce position. Atkins has had half a year worth anything so far.


I'm not talking about the gap between these guys and certainly not implying we should be talking about Atkins as a first rounder. The point was, how can the argument that a player has only done it for a year apply to certain guys like Atkins, but not other guys like Reyes who everyone has a man-crush on?
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Re: ...

Postby Ender » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:23 pm

Jackie Treehorn wrote:
Ender wrote:
Jackie Treehorn wrote:
ukrneal wrote:I don't entirely understand people here. I understand that Aram could be considered a safer choice. I dont agree, but I understand.

What I don't understand is how Atkins is risky. Many are saying he doesn't have a track record. So why would you take Howard or Reyes or Wright over him (Aram)? These guys have no more track record than Atkins. Why aren't they risky? I can't imagine anyone here taking Atkins or Aram before either of those three (or others like Morneau, Utley, Sizemore, etc.).

Why is Atkins penalized for having ONLY a two-year track record and the others I listed are not? It seems like there is an inconsistency in approach.

Perhaps it's because he is in a small market and doesn't get the attention? I never believed in that, but maybe it does have an effect.


This here dude makes a pretty freakin' good point. Why is Reyes a unanimous top 5? He of the bad hamstring and one year dominance, while the argument of "he only did it for one year, show me more" applies to Atkins.


Well in 2005 Reyes earned $29 and Atkins earned $17. There is a pretty huge gap between these guys. Reyes has had a year of 2nd round value followed by a year of 1st round and is at a scarce position. Atkins has had half a year worth anything so far.


I'm not talking about the gap between these guys and certainly not implying we should be talking about Atkins as a first rounder. The point was, how can the argument that a player has only done it for a year apply to certain guys like Atkins, but not other guys like Reyes who everyone has a man-crush on?


Reyes has done it for 2 years though, he earned early 2nd round value one year and then 1st round value the next. Atkins earned like 9th round value one year and then the first half of last year earned like 7th round value. He's really had half a good year so far so you pretty much have to assume he'll regress a little from a safety standpoint.
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Postby TurdFerguson » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:36 pm

What did Reyes do that was so spectacular two years ago other than the steals?He did not earn second round value after his year two years ago.
You're not making much sense to me.Atkins hit .306-11-58 in the first half last year.He was productive the whole year.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:46 pm

TurdFerguson wrote:What did Reyes do that was so spectacular two years ago other than the steals?He did not earn second round value after his year two years ago.
You're not making much sense to me.Atkins hit .306-11-58 in the first half last year.He was productive the whole year.


Reyes is also 4 years younger and based on the trends and his pedigree makes him one of the most premier players on the planet despite being so young.
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Postby TurdFerguson » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:53 pm

Yoda wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:What did Reyes do that was so spectacular two years ago other than the steals?He did not earn second round value after his year two years ago.
You're not making much sense to me.Atkins hit .306-11-58 in the first half last year.He was productive the whole year.


Reyes is also 4 years younger and based on the trends and his pedigree makes him one of the most premier players on the planet despite being so young.


I'm not refuting that..I was just making the point that he did not have second round value going into last year.Maybe 5th or 6th round value but he also had injury concerns and plate discipline problems.He also said Atkins was only good for a half season which is nonsense.He was productive the entire year.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:11 pm

TurdFerguson wrote:
Yoda wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:What did Reyes do that was so spectacular two years ago other than the steals?He did not earn second round value after his year two years ago.
You're not making much sense to me.Atkins hit .306-11-58 in the first half last year.He was productive the whole year.


Reyes is also 4 years younger and based on the trends and his pedigree makes him one of the most premier players on the planet despite being so young.


I'm not refuting that..I was just making the point that he did not have second round value going into last year.Maybe 5th or 6th round value but he also had injury concerns and plate discipline problems.He also said Atkins was only good for a half season which is nonsense.He was productive the entire year.


True. But Atkins really turned it up in the second half. I think he will do great but until I see him hit for that kind of power again, I won't pay for it.
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Postby Ender » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:58 pm

TurdFerguson wrote:What did Reyes do that was so spectacular two years ago other than the steals?He did not earn second round value after his year two years ago.
You're not making much sense to me.Atkins hit .306-11-58 in the first half last year.He was productive the whole year.


yes, those are Lyle Overbay numbers at the CI. Thats 7th round value. In 2005 Reyes hit .273 with 99 R, 60 SB and earned $29 at a more premium position. Those are late 2nd round numbers that year at least in my 14 team league. Maybe slips early 3rd in a shallow 12 teamer.

I'm an Atkins fan, I expect him to have a good year but he has only had 1/2 a year of top end value so far in the majors. I just don't think the comparison to Reyes is a very good one. The fact people are putting him in the top 6 at his position says a lot about how good they expect him to be, I'm just not ready to take him over the more proven ramirez.
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