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All-time Great 2nd baseman

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Who is the best 2nd baseman?

Joe Morgan
6
30%
Jackie Robinson
1
5%
Rogers Hornsby
11
55%
Eddie Collins
1
5%
Nap Lajoie
0
No votes
Ryne Sandberg
0
No votes
Frank Frisch
0
No votes
Chalie Gehringer
0
No votes
Rod Carew
1
5%
 
Total votes : 20

Postby eftda » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:26 pm

I voted for Robinson. Sometimes its what you do off the field that counts.
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Postby DK » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:10 pm

LCBOY wrote:
DK wrote:I went with Hornsby. He owns many 2B records.


And how does this prove he is the greatest 2B of all time?


LCBOY, I am getting into many a debate with you recently. :)

he holds tons of records at 2b, single-season and career. that's why he's my pick.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:41 pm

A little breakdown

2 for Morgan - Me and another intelligent person :-]

2 for Hornsby - Not that he wasn't an incredible hitter but by all accounts he couldn't field a beachball

1 for Robinson - Incredible man and we all owe him for what he did but his numbers don't make it.

1 for Collins - Very underrated IMO but not the best.

1 for Carew - What are you smoking?
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Postby Madison » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:50 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:A little breakdown

2 for Morgan - Me and another intelligent person :-]

2 for Hornsby - Not that he wasn't an incredible hitter but by all accounts he couldn't field a beachball

1 for Robinson - Incredible man and we all owe him for what he did but his numbers don't make it.

1 for Collins - Very underrated IMO but not the best.

1 for Carew - What are you smoking?


I haven't voted yet...........Maybe I should vote for Carew and see how you react. :-D Lol. :*)
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:06 pm

Madison wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:A little breakdown

2 for Morgan - Me and another intelligent person :-]

2 for Hornsby - Not that he wasn't an incredible hitter but by all accounts he couldn't field a beachball

1 for Robinson - Incredible man and we all owe him for what he did but his numbers don't make it.

1 for Collins - Very underrated IMO but not the best.

1 for Carew - What are you smoking?


I haven't voted yet...........Maybe I should vote for Carew and see how you react. :-D Lol. :*)


With complete and utter contempt. <img src=/forums/images/smiles/kiss.gif> Just kidding :-]

Just trying to get some opinions flowing.
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Postby LCBOY » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:10 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:A little breakdown

2 for Morgan - Me and another intelligent person :-]


I voted for little Joe. :-D
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Postby Grenade Teeth » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:51 pm

My vote process between Collins and Morgan:

Major stat categories
Morgan, 22 Seasons, .392 OBP, .427 SLG
Collins, 25 Seasons, .424 OBP, .429 SLG

SB, CS, RBI, Runs are equal

I'm not going penalize Joe for only playing 22 Seasons, so this is pretty well a draw.

One point of reference is baseball-reference.com's Black Ink, Gray Ink, HOF Standards and HOF Monitor and Collins beats Morgan in every category... Statistical Manipulation edge to Collins

But I like to look at MVP voting along with stats, Morgan has 2 MVPs, Collins 1.
Collins finished top 10 7 times (1 1st, 2 2nd, 3 3rd, 1 5th and a 6th), Morgan 5 (2 1st, 2 4th and an 8th).
One of Collins 2nds was to Ruth in '23, the other to Walter Johnson in '24. His 3rd place was behind Johnson and Joe Jackson in '13 and Ty Cobb and Ed Walsh in '11

Slight edge to Collins IMO.

Both managed a couple of years
Collins 174 W, 160 L, .521 PCT
Morgan 301 W, 262 L, .535 PCT
Morgan also took the Red Sox to the Postseason, but has no more postseason wins than Collins.

Slight edge to Morgan.

How to decide, well I'm pretty sure that Collins is a better announcer.

So there you have it. Collins. One man's vote ;-D
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Postby Grenade Teeth » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:53 pm

One more point, can't argue with Jackie Robinson at all. He is in a class by himself.
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Postby Guest » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:06 pm

Grenade Teeth wrote:
Both managed a couple of years
Collins 174 W, 160 L, .521 PCT
Morgan 301 W, 262 L, .535 PCT
Morgan also took the Red Sox to the Postseason, but has no more postseason wins than Collins.

Uhhhh....wrong Joe Morgan. The HoFer Joe Morgan never managed in the big leagues. The Joe Morgan that managed the Red Sox is white.
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Postby Arlo » Thu Oct 30, 2003 8:25 pm

LCBOY wrote:Rogers Hornsby was very much overrated. He was an awesome hitter but he sucked on defense. Also, he kept getting traded because no one could stand him and he did more things to make it harder for his teams to win.

Another debate! :-D

Hornsby was the most dominant right-handed hitter of his era and one of the best ever. If you're looking at peak value, his 1922 season alone speaks volumes: nobody ever one the triple crown by a wider margin.

He may not have been the best fielder of all time, but I think he's a bit underrated. His double play numbers, for instance, are very impressive for his era. I don't see Collins having much of an edge in this department.

Yes, he was an abrasive, blunt perfectionist who clashed with players and managers alike. His services were still in great demand, though.

I agree with eftda and Grenade Teeth: in terms of overall greatness, you can't argue with naming Robinson the best ever. I'd even go a bit further: this is one of the few cases where it's probably safe to say that a player wasn't only the greatest to date, but will probably never be topped.

Yet in terms of pure performance as a 2b, without looking beyond the narrow confines of the game on the field (and without the least bit of disrespect to Robinson), I have to go with Rajah.

(Can't wait for LCBOY to rip me apart now... !+) )

But man, wouldn't you love to have any of these guys as your fantasy 2b... :-)
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