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Postby APAP » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:07 pm

Reports coming from MLB.com say the deal right now is looking like Hansen for Helton. The Sox may also add Lowell if the Rox are willing to take on his 16 mil contract. If not, then it will likely be a Hansen/Helton swap with the Rockies eating 40-50 mil. and the possibility of a type B prospect also coing to Colorado. Then the Sox look to move Lowell to SD for Scott Linebrink

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Postby homers » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:28 pm

teddy ballgame wrote:
homers wrote:I agree. There's no way the Rockies would do this unless young talent is included, and given the sox recent track record (Anibal Sanchez, Hanley Ramirez), I'd just asume keep Youkilis at 1B and Lowell at 3B. Lowell and Youk are good defensively, and offensively they'll produce about the same as Helton anyway:

Helton .302-15-81 in 649 ab - .266 on the road
Youkilis .279-13-72 in 569 ab
Lowell .284-20-80 in 573 ab

Helton's power is going in the same direction as Don Mattingly's after his back issues. A nice player, but not even an average 1B offensively at this stage of his career. And remember, this is what Helton produced in COLORADO...stick a fork in him...

What exactly does Boston gain? They get to rid themselves of the burden of developing young talent :-?

First of all Helton had 546 AB last year, not 649. You also didn't include OBP which is much more relevant to why the Sox want him than HR and RBI.

I posted this in the Player Updates forum:

teddy ballgame wrote:Youk's AVG and OBP were both 23 points lower than Helton's. Youk had twice as many K's as well which shouldn't be overlooked.

As for Lowell, even if he "came back with pop" he was still 20 points lower in AVG and 65 lower in OBP. Defense? Helton has won 3 gold gloves.

Keep in mind Helton was hospitalized with a stomach thing midway through the year and didn't really fully recover until this offseason. He has regained the weight he lost.

Ok - I'll give you the AB typo.

regardless of Youk's lower OBP, consider:
Youkilis .279-13-72-100 runs .381 OBP - salary $354,000 - 27 years old - breakout coming
Helton .302 (.266 on the road)15-81-94 .404 OBP - $16,600,000 - 33 years old bad back, prime years are in the rear view mirror.
Is a .381 OBP that much worse than .404, especially considering salaries and age? Youkilis would have had to reached base 13 more times to raise his OBP that .023 extra - I think that is attainable for a guy who is known to be an on base machine.

Even with Colorado eating a significant portion, he'll still be a lot more expensive and comparitivly less productive than Youkilis in the next 3-4 years.
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Postby Callahan » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:24 pm

Oh please oh please oh PLEASE Boston make a deal for Helton.

Go Yanks!! ;-D
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Postby APAP » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:10 pm

Callahan wrote:Oh please oh please oh PLEASE Boston make a deal for Helton.

Go Yanks!! ;-D


I don't get why everybody is saying Helton is SOOOO washed up. He's not :-P
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Postby teddy ballgame » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:15 pm

APAP wrote:
Callahan wrote:Oh please oh please oh PLEASE Boston make a deal for Helton.

Go Yanks!! ;-D


I don't get why everybody is saying Helton is SOOOO washed up. He's not :-P

Because he doesn't hit HR's anymore so obviously he's no longer a good hitter. :-? Hopefully the Rockies think that way too. ;-7
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Postby APAP » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:14 pm

Last year was the first year he didnt have 20+ HR and that was largely due to losing 40 lbs in two weeks with a serious stomach virus that took away all his power. He is now only still getting back to normal, and he still had like 14 HR. That's only 6 off of 20 and it's due to something that doesn't happen to often. I hope O'Dowd panicks and ends up selling Helton for very cheap because essentially, Colorado has to move Helton.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:25 pm

In case you didn't know, I was kidding. Hence the ;-7 . I totally agree he is fine and his drop in power can be attributed to the stomach thing and weight loss he had.
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Postby homers » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:01 am

He is still a "good" hitter, just not a $16 million dollar player. It's bad enough they got JD Drew at the inflated price they paid. They don't need another. Helton's power has gone from 32 to 20 to 15, rbi from 96 to 79 to 81, ave from .347 to .320 to .302, OPS from 1090 to 972 to 878, and this is all done with half of his games played in Colorado and a good chunk in Arizona (same division). You staring to catch my drift?
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Postby teddy ballgame » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:02 pm

I guess you guys will be happy. Talks have ended.
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Postby APAP » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:37 pm

teddy ballgame wrote:In case you didn't know, I was kidding. Hence the ;-7 . I totally agree he is fine and his drop in power can be attributed to the stomach thing and weight loss he had.


Oh no, I knew you were kidding, it wasn't adressed towards you :-)
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