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SP/RP...Yahoo's dreaded pitcher designation

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Postby chipper » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:21 pm

Diamond Miners wrote:But why is it ok to run 4 SPs but not ok to run 4 closers? Each team has there own strategy, let them run it.


The point is, there is a max # of innings you can use. Sure a guy can run 4 SP's out there for a month or so, but then he's out of innings. When you can have extra closers and others can't, it's an advantage. Closers earn more points per inning than starters do, and when you have an innings maximum, it allows you to really maximize them. I don't know your settings, but I played in a total points league last year, and it was a big advantage to have Papelbon, plain and simple.

And yeah, you're totally right, it is all just strategy, and I exploited it to great benefit last year. This posters question was to try and limit this happening, and that's all I was responding to.
I plan on doing it again this year.

And there are a few more potential guys for this year that I do not want to mention considering my league reads all this stuff, lol. But I see at least 3 or 4 right out of the gate, and there are always another couple that spring up during the year.

Bottom line, if I have 4 SP spots and 2 RP spots, and each day I can start 4 or 5 closers, along with my 1 or 2 best starters for that day, that's an advantage, and that's what this poster is trying to aviod.
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Postby Diamond Miners » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:08 pm

chipper wrote:The point is, there is a max # of innings you can use. Sure a guy can run 4 SP's out there for a month or so, but then he's out of innings. When you can have extra closers and others can't, it's an advantage.

But how come others can't? Everybody can draft anybody or pick them up off free agency/waiver wire. So techincally nobody has the advantage, just more knowledge. You can't punish someone for having more knowledge and a thought process to figure things out.

chipper wrote:Closers earn more points per inning than starters do, and when you have an innings maximum, it allows you to really maximize them. I don't know your settings, but I played in a total points league last year, and it was a big advantage to have Papelbon, plain and simple.

But we aren't discussing your league, we are discussing Y Guy's league.
Y Guy's wrote:Yahoo, roto, 14-team non-keeper league.

Eliminate the points discussion because it doesn't matter to him. Yes RPs earn more per inning pitched, but they can also ruin an ERA and WHIP as well.

chipper wrote:And yeah, you're totally right, it is all just strategy, and I exploited it to great benefit last year. This posters question was to try and limit this happening, and that's all I was responding to. I plan on doing it again this year.

As do I, and my point is why worry about limiting it when the way to limit it produces other exploits. Not arguing against you, just the idea of limiting it.

chipper wrote:And there are a few more potential guys for this year that I do not want to mention considering my league reads all this stuff, lol. But I see at least 3 or 4 right out of the gate, and there are always another couple that spring up during the year.

Right, just like Heilman last year. Not all pan out either. The guy who took Heilman last year forced me to take Papelbon. Boy am I happy he did.

chipper wrote:Bottom line, if I have 4 SP spots and 2 RP spots, and each day I can start 4 or 5 closers, along with my 1 or 2 best starters for that day, that's an advantage, and that's what this poster is trying to aviod.

If you have 4 SP and 2 RP spots you can not start 4 or 5 closers. Because there are not that many SP/RP closers. Its the P spots that you can do that. Atleast with the SP spot you limit it to just those who are SP/RP. Rather then the P spots that are open for any RP to play. That is my point that others (not you) have overlooked.
Good luck, feel free to PM me
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Postby chipper » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:26 pm

Diamond Miners wrote:If you have 4 SP and 2 RP spots you can not start 4 or 5 closers. Because there are not that many SP/RP closers. Its the P spots that you can do that. Atleast with the SP spot you limit it to just those who are SP/RP. Rather then the P spots that are open for any RP to play. That is my point that others (not you) have overlooked.


I don't know man, I think there are a few closers out there this year that will qualify in the SP/RP spot.

I never really liked the idea of P spots, I was just trying to come up with an idea to limit the # of closers used, while still allowing a guy to throw more than 2 starters on a day that they want to.

I guess last year it was different since Papelbon was so good. He was pretty much the only guy, so whoever had him had a bit of an unfair advantage in my opinion. There wasn't anther guy out there that could do that (Dempster maybe), so it gave only 1 person the opportunity to do it.
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This is a good idea

Postby astromania » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:58 pm

Rather than playing around with the position designations, you could set a high minimum IP (not sure if Yahoo allows this) or give points for IP, either of which would keep managers from overloading on relievers.


In some leagues I am in we have as much as 50 innings as the min. Some feel that is too much, so in a couple of other leagues we use 35 innings for the min. It does help to keep balance. Yahoo does allow this. However if you use IP as a stat, that does open another can of worms, with some people adding and dropping SP daily just to win that stat.
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Postby Y`s Guy » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:37 pm

Our traditional pitching setup is:

SP, SP, SP, SP, CL, CL, P, P

We count HOLDS so ideally you want 2 closers and 2 set-up guys. Well, the top finishing teams often were successful at getting that valubal closer who had SP/RP status. Last season I won for the first time ever. Why? Maybe because I had Dempster and Papelbon in the SP and SP spots. I grouped them with Mike Gonzalez and another closer to win that category. The year before the league champ had a similar scenario.

I just hate to see it be such a huge advantage. And we will not do SP, SP, P, P only.

I think we'll just stay with the same set up and see how things plan out. I guess Seth McLung might be such a pitcher. Wainright?

Thanks fr all of the debate. It's interesting stuff.
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Postby EricF » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:56 pm

fitzjd wrote:Rather than playing around with the position designations, you could set a high minimum IP (not sure if Yahoo allows this) or give points for IP, either of which would keep managers from overloading on relievers.


Yahoo doesn't allow a minimum IP to be set, but the maximum can be set anywhere from 100 to 2000 in increments of 50 (the default is 1250).

In our league we increase the maximum to 1350 to sway it a little toward starters piling up Ks and Ws. Even though Yahoo doesn't do a minimum IP setting, our league says that if you don't have at least 1000 IP you can't win.
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Postby Crippler » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:17 am

fitzjd wrote:Rather than playing around with the position designations, you could set a high minimum IP (not sure if Yahoo allows this) or give points for IP, either of which would keep managers from overloading on relievers.


Do RPs really pitch that many fewer innings per week on average than SPs?
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Postby RowdyRed » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:01 pm

Yahoo does allow it in H2H....

I'm in a H2H Keeper League, 12 team, with a min of 30 IP. We have 3 SP, 2 RP, and 3 P. We have 25 man rosters though. My strategy is pretty simple. I get 9 or 10 hitters, 5 RP (including some MR to help with ERA, WHIP, K's, and the occassional Save), and the rest SP. We have a max move limit, but with that lineup, things go pretty smoothly for me...

Still, I didn't exactly dominate last year, and the guy with Papelbon didn't tear the league up. I don't think it's much of an advantage in H2H....
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Postby Nerfherders » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:49 pm

Another idea is to have SP, P, P, P and alot more BN slots. This will force managers to rotate their starters but they cant load up on closers.
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Postby EricF » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:44 pm

Do RPs really pitch that many fewer innings per week on average than SPs?


Yes, just look at the total number of innings pitched in a season. An RP typically logs about 80 IP while a quality starter chalks up about 200. I was monitoring my innings closely last year when I was about to hit the max, and my RPs typically pitched 2-3 innings a week.
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