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SP/RP...Yahoo's dreaded pitcher designation

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Postby Homer_Jay » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:43 am

I allow all managers to choose what they want. I put up 7 P spots. This allows a manager to draft all closers....strikeout guys, or all starters. I think it adds strategy to allow each manager to do what they want.
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Postby chipper » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:51 pm

Homer_Jay wrote:I allow all managers to choose what they want. I put up 7 P spots. This allows a manager to draft all closers....strikeout guys, or all starters. I think it adds strategy to allow each manager to do what they want.


Closers are way more valuable per inning pitched than starters. Having all P spots would open it up for teams to have 1 or 2 great starters and then RP's in the rest.

The only way I can think of to help this, is to have only 2 starting pitcher spots, and the rest of the pitchers have to be on the bench.
This way you make them chose between using an SP on a certain day, or one of their SP/RP closers. It still won't help you on days when they don't have any SP's going, but at least you can limit it somewhat.
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Postby Diamond Miners » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:59 pm

chipper wrote:The only way I can think of to help this, is to have only 2 starting pitcher spots, and the rest of the pitchers have to be on the bench.

The league I'm in runs a 2SP, 2RP, 2P.
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Postby fitzjd » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:03 pm

Rather than playing around with the position designations, you could set a high minimum IP (not sure if Yahoo allows this) or give points for IP, either of which would keep managers from overloading on relievers.
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Postby chipper » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:30 pm

Diamond Miners wrote:
chipper wrote:The only way I can think of to help this, is to have only 2 starting pitcher spots, and the rest of the pitchers have to be on the bench.

The league I'm in runs a 2SP, 2RP, 2P.


That would still allow you to throw 2 SP and 4 Closers on any given day.

If you only have 2 SP spots and 2 RP spots, the most you could throw is still 4 closers, but you couldn't throw a starter that day. So you make them decide which to use.
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Postby Diamond Miners » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:51 am

chipper wrote:
Diamond Miners wrote:
chipper wrote:The only way I can think of to help this, is to have only 2 starting pitcher spots, and the rest of the pitchers have to be on the bench.

The league I'm in runs a 2SP, 2RP, 2P.


That would still allow you to throw 2 SP and 4 Closers on any given day.

If you only have 2 SP spots and 2 RP spots, the most you could throw is still 4 closers, but you couldn't throw a starter that day. So you make them decide which to use.


Correct, but also lets some owners throw 4 SPs if they have it. And sometimes they do. One guy through out Mussina, Zito, Verlander and Smoltz all on the same day last year. The 2P is just for the owner to decide how he wants to use it. If they go the RP route so be it. There are not many SP/RPs, but I have once before had 5 closers and 1 stud starter in my regular rotation. I would just rotate out the one starter for their starts. But we don't feel you should restrict how people want to play. Besides it makes for interesting draft days as people approach things differently. The 2 SPs prevents you from atleast having 6 RPs like some people have suggested. However if the owner wants to take a gamble on the right SP/RP so be it. Its there choice.

Either way the poster decides to go, there are positives and negatives for each setup. He just has to decide what he and the league like the best. Limiting to just 2 SP and 2 RP (like you seem to suggest) really limits the pitchers and I'd assume closers would go a bit earlier in the draft then normal as they become pricey. The SPs still not so much but if there is no P position then I'd be more inclined to use the SP/RP during off days for my SPs.
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Postby Diamond Miners » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:53 am

fitzjd wrote:Rather than playing around with the position designations, you could set a high minimum IP (not sure if Yahoo allows this) or give points for IP, either of which would keep managers from overloading on relievers.


Depending on the league, this could work well. The higher the min. IP the more starters you typically have to use. Afterall if you don't meet the min. IP you don't get to count any of the pitching categories that week (in H2H). But in roto (like the posters league) it wouldn't really come into effect until later in the season when the guy with all the SP/RPs starts to make trades for SPs or fishes free agency and just starts the random SP and hopefully for the league's sake, putting up bad numbers to help balance things out.

All in all, the SP/RP is not that bad of an idea and allows for some freedom for the owner to run his team his way. Heck, some people will do the free agency pitchers and pick up/use at least 3 starters a day. People like that will stock up on Ks and Ws (assumingly). What does your league do to stop them?
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Postby chipper » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:29 pm

Diamond Miners wrote:
chipper wrote:
Diamond Miners wrote:
chipper wrote:The only way I can think of to help this, is to have only 2 starting pitcher spots, and the rest of the pitchers have to be on the bench.

The league I'm in runs a 2SP, 2RP, 2P.


That would still allow you to throw 2 SP and 4 Closers on any given day.

If you only have 2 SP spots and 2 RP spots, the most you could throw is still 4 closers, but you couldn't throw a starter that day. So you make them decide which to use.


Correct, but also lets some owners throw 4 SPs if they have it. And sometimes they do. One guy through out Mussina, Zito, Verlander and Smoltz all on the same day last year. The 2P is just for the owner to decide how he wants to use it. If they go the RP route so be it. There are not many SP/RPs, but I have once before had 5 closers and 1 stud starter in my regular rotation. I would just rotate out the one starter for their starts. But we don't feel you should restrict how people want to play. Besides it makes for interesting draft days as people approach things differently. The 2 SPs prevents you from atleast having 6 RPs like some people have suggested. However if the owner wants to take a gamble on the right SP/RP so be it. Its there choice.

Either way the poster decides to go, there are positives and negatives for each setup. He just has to decide what he and the league like the best. Limiting to just 2 SP and 2 RP (like you seem to suggest) really limits the pitchers and I'd assume closers would go a bit earlier in the draft then normal as they become pricey. The SPs still not so much but if there is no P position then I'd be more inclined to use the SP/RP during off days for my SPs.


Well there are rarely days when you throw more than 2 starting pitchers, but none the less, I guess changing it to 2 SP spots and 2 P spots might be better. It still stops people from running too many closers out there, but still gives you the ability to start 4 guys if the day arises.

I don't know, there might be some potential guys out there this year that are SP/RP's. No one the quality that Papelbon was last year, but still decent. Man, having Papelbon last year was huge. Closers earn way more points per inning than a starting pitcher, so having an extra closer was big....at least for me. I drafted Pujols with the first pick, and then picked up Papelbon a week into the season. No one else really had a chance.
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Postby ABA316 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:32 pm

All in all, the SP/RP is not that bad of an idea and allows for some freedom for the owner to run his team his way. Heck, some people will do the free agency pitchers and pick up/use at least 3 starters a day. People like that will stock up on Ks and Ws (assumingly). What does your league do to stop them?[/quote]

I ran a small league last year roto where IP was a stat. To limit the shuffling there was a max of 100 moves (not including trades) for the season.

If someone chose to shuffle, they would change damaging ERA/WHIP to gain IP/W/K. With that 100 limit, even the last place team for ERA/WHIP could only do the shuffle so much.
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Postby Diamond Miners » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:16 pm

chipper wrote:Well there are rarely days when you throw more than 2 starting pitchers, but none the less, I guess changing it to 2 SP spots and 2 P spots might be better. It still stops people from running too many closers out there, but still gives you the ability to start 4 guys if the day arises.
But why is it ok to run 4 SPs but not ok to run 4 closers? Each team has there own strategy, let them run it.
2004-?, 2005-Dempster 2006-Papelbon, 2007-K.Wood?
It's not like its really hurting all that much, there is not a whole lot to choose from in saves, though you could find more if you are just looking for a middle relief guy that has SP as well. The leauge I'm in run all different ways. One guy runs 2 SPs and 2 RPs and he drafts them pretty early to stay on top. One guy runs 3 decent SPs and stocks up on closers/middle relief, the other runs mostly somewhat ok SPs and 1 good SP and only 2 closers. Those three teams are probably in the top 5 every year. So one way does not out weigh the other. Its just a matter of if the owners know how to draft and know their own strategy and stick with it.


chipper wrote:I don't know, there might be some potential guys out there this year that are SP/RP's. No one the quality that Papelbon was last year, but still decent. Man, having Papelbon last year was huge. Closers earn way more points per inning than a starting pitcher, so having an extra closer was big....at least for me. I drafted Pujols with the first pick, and then picked up Papelbon a week into the season. No one else really had a chance.

Last year with Papelbon at SP, I was getting between 8-10 Saves a week with 5 closers. But that's my strategy in H2H...even then I went toe to toe with the guy who had only 2 closers as he had more W and K then I did because he threw more SPs out during the week. ERA and WHIP were very close because he knew which SPs to go with. All of which can be summed up by a whole season as well, just takes longer.
Good luck, feel free to PM me
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