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Postby FrankGore » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:17 pm

I am in a new keeper league and we are debating the categories. The commish wanted 7x7 with the following: R, HR, RBI, SB, AVG, Hits, OPS for hitters and Wins, SV, HLD, ERA, WHIP, BAA, K's for pitchers. I feel like some of these categories are double counting, like hits and AVG or WHIP and BAA. It is a H2H league by the way.

What do you guys think about this??
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Postby deerayfan072 » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:08 am

I always like the standard 5X5, but thats just me.
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Postby Frenchiegangsta9 » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:19 am

i concur with your statement about double counting and i would work on explaining that redundancy to the other owners. Hopefully they have a ounce of reason.
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Postby ukrneal » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:49 am

There is almost always at least some correlation, the key with 7 cats is to try to minimize that.

Hitting: I would prefer 2b as one category. I love 2b. It adds a whole new element since power-hitters and single hitters alike can be good at them. So I would want that as one of the categories. Hits has some element of correlation and some not. I like it in that it gives additional value to steals guys, but it does correspond with other Average based cats. On OPS, I think this or OBP are good additions, although I prefer OBP so as not to give yet more weight to power hitters.

Pitching: Holds is somewhat standard and opens up a lot of players to some value. I hate BAA as it is too highly correlated to ERA, WHIP, and Wins. I'd prefer something like K/BB or something. It adds more balance.
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Postby FrankGore » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:39 pm

just one thing about doubles, what does a triple count as? I would be pretty unfair to reward a double but not reward the guy who gets to third. We used doubles last year and the guy who had Reyes ended up about 10 doubles out of first place, and Reyes had more than 10 triples. How do you handle that problem?
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Postby Denmarch » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:44 pm

ukrneal wrote:On OPS, I think this or OBP are good additions, although I prefer OBP so as not to give yet more weight to power hitters.

I totally agree with this; I have OBP in my league, and it adds a nice dimension to it. Rewarding guys who help team by getting on base...makes sense to me! ;-D

Regarding the idea of specific 2B and HR categories, I like it, but I do something a bit different. To reward guys who hit for average and often get extra-base hits, I have SLG as a category. This can make more attractive a good-AVG player who hits a boatload of doubles but only a dozen HR.

At any rate, my league has standard 5X5 pitching categories, but my batting cat's are Hits, Runs Produced, Bases Produced, Slugging, and OBP. Bases Produced includes stolen bases, so it's not like they're gone entirely. (Of course, Juan Pierre is no longer a hotly-pursued commodity.)
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Postby ukrneal » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:36 pm

FrankGore wrote:just one thing about doubles, what does a triple count as? I would be pretty unfair to reward a double but not reward the guy who gets to third. We used doubles last year and the guy who had Reyes ended up about 10 doubles out of first place, and Reyes had more than 10 triples. How do you handle that problem?


It's just tough luck unless you want to add a 3b category as well. What I like about it though is that there are many different types of players that get doubles in different ways. Only the very best power hitters get high numbers here too, so it really helps add value to all except 'pure' HR hitters.
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Postby FrankGore » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:48 pm

that makes sense, thanks for the input guys.
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Postby dmendro » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:15 pm

I always think that if you go beyond 6 cats, it should be like E/9 for position players and BA against for pitching.


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Postby The Mighty Trow » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:57 pm

ukrneal wrote:
FrankGore wrote:just one thing about doubles, what does a triple count as? I would be pretty unfair to reward a double but not reward the guy who gets to third. We used doubles last year and the guy who had Reyes ended up about 10 doubles out of first place, and Reyes had more than 10 triples. How do you handle that problem?


It's just tough luck unless you want to add a 3b category as well. What I like about it though is that there are many different types of players that get doubles in different ways. Only the very best power hitters get high numbers here too, so it really helps add value to all except 'pure' HR hitters.


I'm heading up our money league for the first time this year, and in our opinion, 5x5 is too boring. its fun for public leagues, but when you're involved with people you know, it should interesting. we will play this season with 6x6 - Complete Games plus Triples.

The way I see it, HRs and RBIs count as two stats in favor of power hitters, leaving speedsters undervalued with only the SB category in their favor. Triples fixes this- they are extremely rare and they are typically hit by those who are quick on the basepaths.

Complete Games are just fun. They're more common than shutouts, and they add some value to pitching, which (save for Santana) typically gets a bad rap every spring.

just my two pennies ;-D
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