WELCOME TO THE MOST BORING WORLD SERIES EVER! - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

WELCOME TO THE MOST BORING WORLD SERIES EVER!

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby Absolutely Adequate » Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:08 pm

Okay, here goes:

First off, even though scouting and player development are not as expensive as player salaries, 3 years ago the Yankees spent $83,413,000 on just that. Now, that includes salaries for managers, coaches, and scouts; signing bonuses for draftees and foreign free agents; the farm system; stadium expenses; front-office payrolls; and the cost of operating Major League Baseball's central office in New York.

That's a lot. It really isn't a drop in the bucket, and the Expos only spent $35,014,000 that same year. There is a difference, one way or the other. It's hard to find exact numbers, so those'll have to do.

Now, I contend also that the Braves aren't making as much money as the Yankees despite comprable success because they are a medium market club. I live down here and can't afford to go to 80 games a year, neither can most people. And there aren't enough people in the city to purchase tickets to the games. In New York, there's more than enough fans to go around... In Atlanta, once the bandwagon fans were gone, they stopped selling out the stadium.

What else, what else... I'm not going to respond to SteveLabnys post because he's not supporting anything. Sorry, Steve. And writing something in all caps doesn't make what you're saying a fact.

Oh, and the "Yankees don't have the highest paid player at any position but closer" argument is foolish. If you really want to know, I'll explain why. But, if, as I suspect, you can see the myriad flaws in that argument yourself, then I'll save my time.

Tell you what. Give me a few hours, I'll do some research.

Oh, and here's a great article. You'll like it. I promise.

http://www.yanks-suck.com/sgleason70702.php
Absolutely Adequate
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 5000
Joined: 6 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Not here.

Postby Absolutely Adequate » Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:45 pm

Okay, here goes. I'll try to use small words for you Yankee fans... (only kidding, guys. I'll use my normal vocabulary.)

I'll basically use numbers from two previous Yankee dynasties, 1947-54 and 1954-64 because I think that those numbers most closely relate to the current period we're suffering through. Now, I'm assuming that (I will be doing the research as I write this) for the first 3-4 years of the dynasty, fans did not realize how awful the next few years would be and they still attended in droves. My concern lies with the last few years of the dynasty, after the team had been winning consistantly for a few years and there was no end in sight. For the record, I'm not looking at the current dynasty for two reasons: 1. They were recovering from the strike and the farther we get from 1994, the higher the attendance figures should be. 2. We're still in the throes of it and it's harder to isolate historical problems. Now, down to it:

From 1947-1954, the Yankees finished (in order) 12 games in first, 2.5 games out, 1 game up, 3 up, 5 up, 2 up, 8.5 up, 8 back.

Now, let's lay that out in graph form, next to the attendance figures, okay? And remember, I'm only doing from 1950-1954 because of the reasons outlined above.

1950- 3 games up Attendance: 9,142,361
1951- 5 up Attendance: 8,882,674
1952- 2 up Attendance: 8,293,896
1953- 8.5 up Attendance: 6,964,076
1954- 8 back Attendance: 7,922,364

Now, from 1950 to 1953 the American League lost 2,178,285 people in total attendance. Not that much by todays standards, I'll admit, but that also means that the American league lost 24% of their total attendance during that time. Then, in 1954, when the Indians walloped the Yankees, the attendance numbers suffered a spike of 14%. Huh. I know, I know. The Korean War, right? Well, the National league also lost attendance from 1950-1954. It fell 11%. So the American League lost 16% more during that period.

Lets check out the next numbers, eh?

Now, from 1956-1964, the Yankees final standings: 9 up, 8 up, 10 up, 5 up, 8 up, 8 up, 5 up, 10.5 up, 1 up. Now, let's check that out.


1961: 8 up Attendance - 10,163,016
1962: 5 up Attendance - 10,015,056
1963: 10.5 up Attendance - 9,094,847
1964: 1 up Attendance - 9,235,151

Now, there the dropoff wasn't as great, but remember that many of our young men (baseballs traditional audience) weren't in Korea this time. But still, the numbers aren't surprising. The American League dropped almost 930,000 fans during those years. Again, not that huge of a number, but certainly worth looking into. That's a 9.13 percent drop. Not that bad, unless you consider that the National league grew during that time by 28%. That's a difference of 37% for all you non-math people. Of course, the National league went under expansion, so those numbers aren't entirely trustworthy, but by looking at their per game average attendance numbers, the National League still improved attendance by just short of 18%. Hmmm.

So, no. I don't think that the current Yankee dynasty is good for baseball. It appears that baseball fans like to see their own team in contention now and again. And, no, Steve, it doesn't matter if they lose this series. Baseball is not a sprint. And the fact that the Yankees have been in 6 of the last 8 World Series is enough for me.

That's it.
Absolutely Adequate
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 5000
Joined: 6 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Not here.

Postby Lofunzo » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:04 am

DK wrote:I'm PROUD to say that i'm a yankee hater. after all, i'm a mets fan. comes with the territory.


I am tired of reading all these damned posts, but i basically agree with everything absolutely adequate says.


I will respect your allegiances but also say that you have much more intelligence than to agree with what AA says. I have read your posts and know them to be more than 99.9% Yankees bashing.

If you don't like the team, I say fine. If you are jealous because they play by the rules and just like to bash them for being good, then shame on you. I know that there was no Cafe when they sucked but I'm sure that no one gave a damn when they were bad. Get over it. (This is just a general statement and not against DK)
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 12)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Postby HOOTIE » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:45 am

wrveres wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:. Pavano versus Clemens? Fantasy is much better then real bb.



One could only hope..... :-) Go fish ... Best game of the series so far.... ;-D ;-D

Ya gotta call for me on game 5? (smilz)


Yea, someone will win game 5 lol. Pavano threw the game of his life. Who would have thought that? McKeon did his best to blow it.
Smells Like Teen Spirit
HOOTIE
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 15115
(Past Year: 297)
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pearl Jam country, right next door to Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains.

Postby HOOTIE » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:02 am

I dont believe dynasties are good. NY has been in 6 of the last 8 ws. Why even have a AL season? Just play the nl season, and they play NY. The amatuer draft was started in 65 in part because of NY and LA long dominence. It was meant to give a edge to the weaker teams. Free agency has ruined that concept, not to mention the 1st pick gets passed over because of signability concerns. NY plays by the rules, and are smarter then some, but that doesnt mean the systems right. Look at it this way. If i have $150, and you have $50, who can do more with it? Btw, Soriano was a free agent from Japan. He was playing pro ball and was on the open market as a free agent. The big difference in NY is they can keep their players, while most teams watch them go to highest bidder.
Smells Like Teen Spirit
HOOTIE
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 15115
(Past Year: 297)
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pearl Jam country, right next door to Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains.

Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:38 am

Hootie good point about players being passed over in the draft due to signing concerns. I would love to see a cap on the draftees salary and signing bonuses but as long as draft picks are given to teams as compensation for losing players to free agency that means the player's union is involved. And they aren't going to give up something for nothing.
Image
Pogotheostrich
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21583
(Past Year: 353)
Joined: 9 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

Postby Transmogrifier » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:48 am

Let's try something novel here. Can we all agree on this one idea:

Money has negatively affected the game. From the Borases of the world demanding huge bonuses for high school draftees (getting back to the draft issue), to owners raping cities in ballpark deals (save PacBell, oops, SBC), to owners crying poor while lining their pockets on mediocre teams that they keep mediocre, to the Yankees spending three times the amount of some teams.

For the sake of baseball, something checking the influence of money must be done.
Last edited by Transmogrifier on Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm back. Sorta.

Do not boo Johnny.
Transmogrifier
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 7181
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: No taxation without Representation!

Postby Lofunzo » Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:40 am

Transmogrifier wrote:Let's try something novel here. Can we all agree on this one idea:

Money has negatively affected the game. From the Borases of the world demanding huge bonuses for high school draftees (getting back to the draft issue), to owners raping cities in ballpark deals (save PacBell, oops, SBC), to owners crying poor whiling lining their pockets on mediocre teams that they keep mediocre, to the Yankees spending three times the amount of some teams.

For the sake of baseball, something checking the influence of money must be done.


I have no problem putting money constraints on. I have only been commenting on the fact that the Yankees are well within the rules now.

I also know that Soriano was a free agent player from Japan. Goes back to the scouting issue.
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 12)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Postby ramble2 » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:37 am

Transmogrifier wrote:Let's try something novel here. Can we all agree on this one idea:

Money has negatively affected the game. From the Borases of the world demanding huge bonuses for high school draftees (getting back to the draft issue), to owners raping cities in ballpark deals (save PacBell, oops, SBC), to owners crying poor while lining their pockets on mediocre teams that they keep mediocre, to the Yankees spending three times the amount of some teams.

For the sake of baseball, something checking the influence of money must be done.


Hear hear!

The solution is an all too obvious yet overlooked one: MLB needs a strong commissioner who can act independently of both the owners and the players union. There are many ways to make baseball healthier, the problem is that Bud won't (can't?) administer the strong medicine. Sigh. :,-(
"The game has a cleanness. If you do a good job, the numbers say so. You don't have to ask anyone or play politics. You don't have to wait for the reviews." - Sandy Koufax
ramble2
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 2952
(Past Year: 8)
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Salt Lake City

Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:40 am

Good point. Right now the commish is just a puppet for the owners. The problem is if the commish is supposed to be independent from the Player's union and owners, who appoints him and what makes his authority legitimate?
Image
Pogotheostrich
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21583
(Past Year: 353)
Joined: 9 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ShehanietaRax and 4 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Saturday, Jul. 26
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Toronto at NY Yankees
(1:05 pm)
St. Louis at Chi Cubs
(4:05 pm)
Washington at Cincinnati
(4:05 pm)
Baltimore at Seattle
(4:10 pm)
Arizona at Philadelphia
(7:05 pm)
Boston at Tampa Bay
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Chi White Sox at Minnesota
(7:10 pm)
NY Mets at Milwaukee
(7:10 pm)
Cleveland at Kansas City
(7:10 pm)
Miami at Houston
(7:10 pm)
San Diego at Atlanta
(7:10 pm)
Oakland at Texas
(8:05 pm)
Pittsburgh at Colorado
(8:10 pm)
Detroit at LA Angels
(9:05 pm)
LA Dodgers at San Francisco
(9:05 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact