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Here's my opinions on the Sox/Yanks from tonight

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Here's my opinions on the Sox/Yanks from tonight

Postby Madison » Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:43 am

Now that I've seen the plays in question, here's what I think. Just my personal opinion on what happened.

Was Pedro trying to hit Nick Johnson?

Down 3-2, runners on 2nd and 3rd, 0 outs. Not exactly the situation to intentionally hit a batter. Then again, maybe the perfect time. Was Pedro aiming for Johnson's head? I don't think so. Pedro pitches inside to take control of the strike zone and has hit many batters. He has stated in the past that he will continue to pitch inside and if someone gets hit, they get hit. I really don't believe that Pedro was aiming for Johnson's head. I've seen the replays and to me it looked like Pedro tried to throw it too hard and was off balance when he released the pitch. Was Pedro trying to hit Johnson? I don't know, but I seriously doubt that he was aiming for Johnson's head.

I think the pitch that Clemens threw was fine. Yes, it was head high, but it was over the plate. Manny overreacted to that pitch. Plain and simple. Let's not forget that Manny struts around with a chip on his shoulder anyway, much like Barry Bonds does. Manny's good and entitled to have a chip on his shoulder if he wants, but he did overreact to this situation.

As to Zimmer/Pedro, Zimmer ran around the group of people to get to Pedro. Zimmer threw a left hand, and grabbed Pedro's jacket with his right hand. Pedro pushed him to the ground. Didn't look like Pedro tried to hurt Zimmer, just stop him before someone got hurt. I'll also point out that Pedro pointing at his head while arguing with Zimmer most likely had to do with Zimmer's career almost coming to an end when it happened to Zimmer many years ago.

Zimmer wearing a band aid on his nose? That makes no sense to me at all. He wasn't cut, wasn't bleeding, just doesn't make sense. Then after the game was over, they took him out on a stretcher? Again, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

They didn't say much about the bullpen/groundskeeper problem, so I still don't know how I feel about that one.

All in all, there were many people who behaved badly. This was not good for baseball in any way, shape, form, or fashion. It does bother me that grown adults allowed this to get so bad out there. Game 4 is a scary thought now.

No one was thrown out simply because who do you throw out? If you throw out 1 player it would have cascaded into a lot of players.

I know that some of you will disagree with my assessment of these incidents, and that's quite ok. Everyone sees things a little differently from time to time. If we all saw everything the same way, it would be a very boring world.

I would like to say "Thank You" to everyone who has discussed this topic already. So far, everyone has kept their heads for the most part. It's nice that we have a large group of people who can discuss something this bad, with so much class. Thanks again guys and girls. ;-D
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Postby Guest » Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:45 am

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Postby Jivedude » Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:46 am

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Postby Madison » Sun Oct 12, 2003 2:23 am

Thanks for the link ;-D .

Just by what the article says, it doesn't look good for Garcia/Nelson. Not sure that we have the whole story here though.
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Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Re: Here's my opinions on the Sox/Yanks from tonight

Postby wrveres » Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:40 am

Madison wrote:Now that I've seen the plays in question, here's what I think. Just my personal opinion on what happened.

Was Pedro trying to hit Nick Johnson?

Down 3-2, runners on 2nd and 3rd, 0 outs. Not exactly the situation to intentionally hit a batter. Then again, maybe the perfect time. Was Pedro aiming for Johnson's head? I don't think so. Pedro pitches inside to take control of the strike zone and has hit many batters. He has stated in the past that he will continue to pitch inside and if someone gets hit, they get hit. I really don't believe that Pedro was aiming for Johnson's head. I've seen the replays and to me it looked like Pedro tried to throw it too hard and was off balance when he released the pitch. Was Pedro trying to hit Johnson? I don't know, but I seriously doubt that he was aiming for Johnson's head.

I think the pitch that Clemens threw was fine. Yes, it was head high, but it was over the plate. Manny overreacted to that pitch. Plain and simple. Let's not forget that Manny struts around with a chip on his shoulder anyway, much like Barry Bonds does. Manny's good and entitled to have a chip on his shoulder if he wants, but he did overreact to this situation.

As to Zimmer/Pedro, Zimmer ran around the group of people to get to Pedro. Zimmer threw a left hand, and grabbed Pedro's jacket with his right hand. Pedro pushed him to the ground. Didn't look like Pedro tried to hurt Zimmer, just stop him before someone got hurt. I'll also point out that Pedro pointing at his head while arguing with Zimmer most likely had to do with Zimmer's career almost coming to an end when it happened to Zimmer many years ago.

Zimmer wearing a band aid on his nose? That makes no sense to me at all. He wasn't cut, wasn't bleeding, just doesn't make sense. Then after the game was over, they took him out on a stretcher? Again, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

They didn't say much about the bullpen/groundskeeper problem, so I still don't know how I feel about that one.

All in all, there were many people who behaved badly. This was not good for baseball in any way, shape, form, or fashion. It does bother me that grown adults allowed this to get so bad out there. Game 4 is a scary thought now.

No one was thrown out simply because who do you throw out? If you throw out 1 player it would have cascaded into a lot of players.

I know that some of you will disagree with my assessment of these incidents, and that's quite ok. Everyone sees things a little differently from time to time. If we all saw everything the same way, it would be a very boring world.

I would like to say "Thank You" to everyone who has discussed this topic already. So far, everyone has kept their heads for the most part. It's nice that we have a large group of people who can discuss something this bad, with so much class. Thanks again guys and girls. ;-D


well Pedro's pitch was no where near the strikezone I know that... and it was clearly shoulder high, which to me shows intent. If you are trying to hit someone, you aim for the back and down. Pedro aims for the back and up. He and Roger are both inexcusable in this, and are both classless punk's..IMHO

And when I watch the replay of Pedro and Zimmer. Pedro clearly puches Zimmer to the ground.
Zimmer puches with his left. Pedro steps to his left, Zimmers right. Now he is in no danger, no chance of being hitted, had ample field to step out of the way. But no he chose to "Push".... you can clearly see the "Push" of a 72 year old man to the ground. Again classless.

Zimmers actions before, during ... and after are all inexcusable .. and he should be punished by baseball. What does a bench coach do anyway's? You would at least think he could pick up a broom and clean a liitle. something.

Manny, what another waste of oxygen. why bother. :-t
Nomar , sorry .. come on home and all will be forgiven. promise. Until then you are stuck in that clueless organization.
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Postby DK » Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:40 am

those 3-4 hours were the saddest hours of baseball i've ever seen. dontrelle gets rocked, and nobody can even mention it because of the travesty that was the NYY-BOS game. the rest of this series is now marred. what a horrible, horrible day for baseball. :,-(
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Postby Shitney™ » Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:24 am

i pretty much agree exactly with madison

i just want to note:
apparently Zimmer was hospitalized twice in his career with life threatening injuries from being beaned in the head. which was why he got mad enough to charge pedro

he has a plate in his head which is why he was taken to the hospital, just as a precaution - not as a yankee stunt

still, if i or anyone else was in pedro's place, i think we would all knock a charging man to the ground.. possibly even land a punch, so he was not in the wrong there..

overall everyone acted very childish..
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Postby DK » Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:29 am

Shitney™ wrote:he has a plate in his head which is why he was taken to the hospital, just as a precaution - not as a yankee stunt



He does NOT have a plate in his head. he has had metal plugs in his head, not a plate. an interview with zimmer cleared up the rumor.
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Postby Shitney™ » Sun Oct 12, 2003 12:05 pm

oh, opps ;-7
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Postby Nomar4prez » Sun Oct 12, 2003 12:19 pm

Saying the series has been ruined b/c of this incident is ridiculous. For me, I will be watching all 9 innings of the next couple games. I will not even get up to let out the dog or get a drink. I love what Grady Little said about this series upgrading from a battle to a war. These are two teams that want to get to the World Series very badly, and I have a feeling there will be some more talking, and making some shoving and pushing going on. Both teams have worked for close to a year to get to where they are now, and are not about ready to give up their tickets to the world series. This series, to me, has a look of one that could be the best of all time.

Yes, Zimmer getting hurt and Pedro supposedly throwing at someone's head is not great for baseball, but if anyone here says they don't like the intensity both these teams are showing, then I'm sorry, but your lying.
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