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Sox lose both game and dignity.

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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Oct 14, 2003 11:56 am

Transmogrifier wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:The facts in this case are unknown but at least I can say that I have no idea why the Red Sox would have someone out there. He had no business being in there, especially cheering, yelling, etc.


Apparently there are grounds crew guys in all bullpens, and this happens--the tasteless cheering--in all parks. I'm sure it'll change now.


At least in the playoffs, under these circumstances, and between these 2 teams, he should have known that this was a recipe for disaster. I'm not saying that it was deserved. I'm just saying that he should have expected something.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:05 am

Lofunzo wrote: I'm just saying that he should have expected something.


He should have expected the Yankees players--like any other human being--to go to the cops that were within fifteen feet and have the guy escorted.

To jump the guy is absurd. They should be arrested.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:15 am

Transmogrifier wrote:
Lofunzo wrote: I'm just saying that he should have expected something.


He should have expected the Yankees players--like any other human being--to go to the cops that were within fifteen feet and have the guy escorted.

To jump the guy is absurd. They should be arrested.


If they jumped him for no reason, then I agree. Are we certain that there were cops right there? Unfortunately, there is no video of the incident until everything was already out of control. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of that bullpen there.

I look at it like this.......Camden has particularly bad areas in my state. If I am walking around there at 2 A.M., do I deserve to be robbed? Absolutely not. Should I expect to be robbed? Quite possibly. My point is that people should be using common sense. Common sense dictates that there is no reason for a Red Sox employee to be yelling and waving a Sox towel in the Yankees bullpen at that point of a highly emotional playoff game between the 2 biggest rivals in sports. At any point would be questionable judgement at best but this game was already out of hand.

Again, I think that we should wait on the facts on this 1. We just don't know enough to know how it went down.

On another note, kudos to whoever decided to stop serving beer at that point. It could have gotten much uglier.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:05 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
Lofunzo wrote: I'm just saying that he should have expected something.


He should have expected the Yankees players--like any other human being--to go to the cops that were within fifteen feet and have the guy escorted.

To jump the guy is absurd. They should be arrested.


If they jumped him for no reason, then I agree. Are we certain that there were cops right there? Unfortunately, there is no video of the incident until everything was already out of control. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of that bullpen there.

I look at it like this.......Camden has particularly bad areas in my state. If I am walking around there at 2 A.M., do I deserve to be robbed? Absolutely not. Should I expect to be robbed? Quite possibly. My point is that people should be using common sense. Common sense dictates that there is no reason for a Red Sox employee to be yelling and waving a Sox towel in the Yankees bullpen at that point of a highly emotional playoff game between the 2 biggest rivals in sports. At any point would be questionable judgement at best but this game was already out of hand.

Again, I think that we should wait on the facts on this 1. We just don't know enough to know how it went down.

On another note, kudos to whoever decided to stop serving beer at that point. It could have gotten much uglier.


I was at the game. There were several cops in the bullpen. There almost always are--and always are for the Yankees.

I think your Camden analogy is missing the point. Yeah, the guy shouldn't be waving a towel or whatever. Maybe he should have expected them to respond. No matter. It was an unprovoked attack--according to the cops in the bullpen--which is assault.

You may "expect" to be attacked in Camden, but that you are does not make it any less of a crime. IF you are mugged in Camden or in Beverly Hills, the attack is the same. Maybe it's not smart (to be walking alone at night in Camden, or waving a towel in the Yankees bullpen), but the law protects dumb people too.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:10 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
Lofunzo wrote: I'm just saying that he should have expected something.


He should have expected the Yankees players--like any other human being--to go to the cops that were within fifteen feet and have the guy escorted.

To jump the guy is absurd. They should be arrested.


If they jumped him for no reason, then I agree. Are we certain that there were cops right there? Unfortunately, there is no video of the incident until everything was already out of control. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of that bullpen there.

I look at it like this.......Camden has particularly bad areas in my state. If I am walking around there at 2 A.M., do I deserve to be robbed? Absolutely not. Should I expect to be robbed? Quite possibly. My point is that people should be using common sense. Common sense dictates that there is no reason for a Red Sox employee to be yelling and waving a Sox towel in the Yankees bullpen at that point of a highly emotional playoff game between the 2 biggest rivals in sports. At any point would be questionable judgement at best but this game was already out of hand.

Again, I think that we should wait on the facts on this 1. We just don't know enough to know how it went down.

On another note, kudos to whoever decided to stop serving beer at that point. It could have gotten much uglier.


I was at the game. There were several cops in the bullpen. There almost always are--and always are for the Yankees.

I think your Camden analogy is missing the point. Yeah, the guy shouldn't be waving a towel or whatever. Maybe he should have expected them to respond. No matter. It was an unprovoked attack--according to the cops in the bullpen--which is assault.

You may "expect" to be attacked in Camden, but that you are does not make it any less of a crime. IF you are mugged in Camden or in Beverly Hills, the attack is the same. Maybe it's not smart (to be walking alone at night in Camden, or waving a towel in the Yankees bullpen), but the law protects dumb people too.


I am curious to know whether he was waving the towel and yelling and cheering in Game 3. That would say a lot about the incident. If this was limited to Game 4, then he was looking for trouble. Not like this but something.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:12 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
Lofunzo wrote: I'm just saying that he should have expected something.


He should have expected the Yankees players--like any other human being--to go to the cops that were within fifteen feet and have the guy escorted.

To jump the guy is absurd. They should be arrested.


If they jumped him for no reason, then I agree. Are we certain that there were cops right there? Unfortunately, there is no video of the incident until everything was already out of control. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of that bullpen there.

I look at it like this.......Camden has particularly bad areas in my state. If I am walking around there at 2 A.M., do I deserve to be robbed? Absolutely not. Should I expect to be robbed? Quite possibly. My point is that people should be using common sense. Common sense dictates that there is no reason for a Red Sox employee to be yelling and waving a Sox towel in the Yankees bullpen at that point of a highly emotional playoff game between the 2 biggest rivals in sports. At any point would be questionable judgement at best but this game was already out of hand.

Again, I think that we should wait on the facts on this 1. We just don't know enough to know how it went down.

On another note, kudos to whoever decided to stop serving beer at that point. It could have gotten much uglier.


I was at the game. There were several cops in the bullpen. There almost always are--and always are for the Yankees.

I think your Camden analogy is missing the point. Yeah, the guy shouldn't be waving a towel or whatever. Maybe he should have expected them to respond. No matter. It was an unprovoked attack--according to the cops in the bullpen--which is assault.

You may "expect" to be attacked in Camden, but that you are does not make it any less of a crime. IF you are mugged in Camden or in Beverly Hills, the attack is the same. Maybe it's not smart (to be walking alone at night in Camden, or waving a towel in the Yankees bullpen), but the law protects dumb people too.


I am curious to know whether he was waving the towel and yelling and cheering in Game 3. That would say a lot about the incident. If this was limited to Game 4, then he was looking for trouble. Not like this but something.


I'm confused about your point. Game three was when the incident occured. In game four the groundskeeper was personally approved by Torre.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:14 pm

Sorry. My bad. I got ahead of myself and was wrong.
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Postby DK » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:51 pm

Lofunzo wrote:Sorry. My bad. I got ahead of myself and was wrong.



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