Sox lose both game and dignity.

[DK]

Did Pedro throw that pitch right where he wanted to? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think we can make a judgment based on his normal excellent control, though - even the best of the best miss badly on occasion.

I know what you mean. His control was off that day. If it was on, he would have hit Garcia in the head.

Yankee fan or not, I am certain that he was trying to hit him. He is emotional out there and was getting smacked around and punked out.

you can't say for sure he was trying just because of an off day. if that was true, every time he gave up a hit he'd plunk a guy.

[Lofunzo]

Did Pedro throw that pitch right where he wanted to? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think we can make a judgment based on his normal excellent control, though - even the best of the best miss badly on occasion.

I know what you mean. His control was off that day. If it was on, he would have hit Garcia in the head.

Yankee fan or not, I am certain that he was trying to hit him. He is emotional out there and was getting smacked around and punked out.

you can't say for sure he was trying just because of an off day. if that was true, every time he gave up a hit he'd plunk a guy.

Under the circumstances of the game and situation and based on his actions afterwards, there is no doubt that he was trying to hit him. He also didn't point to his head when yelling at Posada, either. Right?

[DK]

oh, he pointed at his head alright. but who are we to tell what he was saying? he could have been saying, "i'll hit you in the head" or he could have been saying, "at least i didn't hit you in the head".


and what is your opinion on don zimmer's actions? how about garcia sliding into walker? or the bullpen man getting the tar beat out of him? or what about what posada said back to pedro? you're not contemplating everything that happened.

[Lofunzo]

oh, he pointed at his head alright. but who are we to tell what he was saying? he could have been saying, "i'll hit you in the head" or he could have been saying, "at least i didn't hit you in the head".


and what is your opinion on don zimmer's actions? how about garcia sliding into walker? or the bullpen man getting the tar beat out of him? or what about what posada said back to pedro? you're not contemplating everything that happened.

That wasn't the issue here. If you want to know:

1. Zimmer was an idiot to go running at Pedro. Pedro could have just moved out of the way of a 72 year old man with bad knees but he threw him down. Overall, Zimmer didn't need to go after him. At least he had the decency to apologize for his actions.
2. The situation dictated that Garcia go in hard but what he did was unnecessary and wrong.
3. The facts in this case are unknown but at least I can say that I have no idea why the Red Sox would have someone out there. He had no business being in there, especially cheering, yelling, etc. Once the true facts are known, then we can comment better. I'm not saying that he deserved to be beaten down but if you were the RF in that case, I would hope that you would go over there when there was a scuffle. Garcia had no idea what was going on and went to his aid. Again, let's wait for the facts here.
4. I don't know what Posada said but if a pitcher throws very close to someone's head and then points to his head, he can say whatever he wants. He didn't rush him or anything. You are reaching here.

You tell me that I'm not looking at the facts? It seems to me that you are reaching here. I have said in this or other threads that they were all wrong to a degree but this whole situation would not have occured if Pedro didn't hit Garcia. To miss that badly in that situation doesn't smell right to me.

you're not contemplating everything that happened.

I just read my previous comments in this thread and I did comment on other things.

[DK]

To miss that badly in that situation doesn't smell right to me.

you're not contemplating everything that happened.

I just read my previous comments in this thread and I did comment on other things.

first of all, what i also meant by contemplating everything is that you (like myself and almost everyone) seem to forget that baseball players are human. they make mistakes. if pedro did or not is not for me to judge. but i can tell you that he threw the pitch at an odd arm angle and his stance was obviously different that usual. that's basically my extent of knowledge regarding the situation.

[Lofunzo]

I understand. Most of my frustration with Pedro in this instance is that in the game of baseball, throwing at someone's head is terrible. Throwing behind someone's head is atrocious and just plain wrong.

[hayseed]

lol and, with the bullpen incident... The groundskeeper who was involved in the incident is going to be allowed to keep his job and is being defended by the Boston Organization. How does that happen?

[DK]

well, he was getting the hell beat out of him. whether or not it was deserved, he has rights to his job.

[Madison]

lol and, with the bullpen incident... The groundskeeper who was involved in the incident is going to be allowed to keep his job and is being defended by the Boston Organization. How does that happen?

Probably because the 3 guys involved are the only ones who really know what happened.

[Transmogrifier]

The facts in this case are unknown but at least I can say that I have no idea why the Red Sox would have someone out there. He had no business being in there, especially cheering, yelling, etc.

Apparently there are grounds crew guys in all bullpens, and this happens--the tasteless cheering--in all parks. I'm sure it'll change now.