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Cardinals sinking

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Postby JTWood » Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:39 pm

Cardinals are sinking? That's ridiculous. Why? Because they didn't give Suppan and Marquis awful contracts? Because they extended a Cy Young pitcher through his useful years? Maybe it was the solid second baseman they inked. Or maybe they are taking a step backwards because they picked up a talented pitcher in Wells who just so happens to be coming off of a freakish injury.

The ownership has made nothing but smart moves so far, and if it costs them in the short term ('07), it certainly won't pin them down in the future ('08). There's no doubt that the Cardinals are not in an enviable position rosterwise, but they weren't last year and look what happened.

Like I said at the beginning of 2006, the goal is to get to the playoffs. After that, who knows what happens. Not that anyone expects an 83-win team to take the Series again, but you get the point: The Cardinals can compete in 2007. That's all that matters.
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Postby JTWood » Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:43 pm

LukeW9027 wrote:...as long as they have Pujols, Rolen, Carpenter, and LaRussa, they will be in contention as always.

Nice to see someone who gets it. ;-D
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Postby RAmst23 » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:00 pm

JTWood wrote:Cardinals are sinking? That's ridiculous. Why? Because they didn't give Suppan and Marquis awful contracts? Because they extended a Cy Young pitcher through his useful years? Maybe it was the solid second baseman they inked. Or maybe they are taking a step backwards because they picked up a talented pitcher in Wells who just so happens to be coming off of a freakish injury.

The ownership has made nothing but smart moves so far, and if it costs them in the short term ('07), it certainly won't pin them down in the future ('08). There's no doubt that the Cardinals are not in an enviable position rosterwise, but they weren't last year and look what happened.

Like I said at the beginning of 2006, the goal is to get to the playoffs. After that, who knows what happens. Not that anyone expects an 83-win team to take the Series again, but you get the point: The Cardinals can compete in 2007. That's all that matters.


I don't quite think it's ridiculous to say the Cardinals have become worse since the end of the 2006 season. Do you think they have improved?

Thanks for pointing out the things the Cardinals did do, now let's point out the things they didn't do. If the Cards are content with having Wainwright in the rotation, why not sign a couple extra relievers? Take Wainwright out and I'm not too confident in our bad relievers turned great for the postseason bullpen. I'd like to have seen a better effort to go after Schmidt. Yes it was a smart move to stay out of the bad contract hunt, but overpaying for Schmidt I could have lived with.

Since 2000 I never felt that the Cardinals were in a bad position before the season started. I always felt people were exaggerating when they stated our downfall, especially in 2004 when I thought we were an awfully strong team (and then we got Walker!) This year, nope can't say I have that optimism.

Usually the Cards rotation contains 1-2 starters who are risk/reward types. This year, even assuming we sign Jeff Weaver, 4/5ths of the Cardinals rotation contains unknowns.
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Postby madmax391 » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:05 pm

The Cards win the World Series and you are already complaining? Are you sure you aren't a Yankee fan?
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Postby acsguitar » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:38 pm

Its not like they were gonna stumble their way into winning the series again
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:10 pm

RAmst23 wrote:why not sign a couple extra relievers?


:-?

thats the one area i think they need the least amount of help

izzy (projects to be healthy)
kinney
johnson
flores
hancock
thompson
springer
looper (i still think someone else will be brought in to start)
rincon
narveson
plus whatever ST invitees they have. cavazos and cate look pretty interesting. i'm not sure if falkenborg is still around. they have had pretty good luck plucking guys like hancock and kiko calero off the scrap heap.

I'd like to have seen a better effort to go after Schmidt.


he turned down a higher offer from baltimore to go to LA, and LA very likely would have matched anything the cards offered. i think you are fooling yourself if you think the cards could have gotten him.

especially in 2004 when I thought we were an awfully strong team (and then we got Walker!)


the cards are in an excellent position to take on some salary in a trade when teams get around to realizing just how badly they screwed up this offseason. i know its awfully frustrating how walt jocketty works, but being patient has consistently paid off for him.
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Postby dcskater619 » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:30 am

lol yeah i was gonna say.. if u would take wainwright over rich hill in your rotation, u wouldnt make a very good manager.. and i forgot to mention marquis in the rotation debate.. he had a bad year but was solid in the past and obviously they saw something in him.. its also not hard to understand this.. Lillys numbers from last year were in the AL east.. facing the 2 best lineups in baseball as well as a DH on every other AL team.. a move to the NL central is gonna make his numbers better right off the bat.. if you look at it from a whole teams point of view, the cubs team looks a lot better then the cardinals team does.. you can brag about pujols, but once u say "they have rolen" then ur just proving my point.. rolen and edmonds are trash compared to any 2 of Soriano/Lee/Ramirez.. the cubs lineup is MUCH better then the cardinals, and the pitching staff, as well as the bullpen (especially without wainwright), is better as well..

and oh yeah, the cubs now have a pretty damn good manager as well i believe? ;-D
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Postby dcskater619 » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:33 am

and to whoever said duncan was gonna be their LFer.. did u see him play the outfield in the playoffs!?!? it was terrible.. no way they put him out there.. and if they did, it would make the cubs that much better
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:33 am

dcskater619 wrote:the cubs lineup is MUCH better then the cardinals, and the pitching staff, as well as the bullpen (especially without wainwright), is better as well..

Not a chance.

Derrek Lee's career year is Albert Pujols' before-prime average season. And as bad as Pierre's .330 Cubs leadoff OBP was, Soriano's career OBP is just .331. And it isn't as if Soriano is valuable in the field.

Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds, and Yadier Molina help build one hell-of-a-defense to go behind MLB's #2 pitcher, Chris Carpenter. And it isn't as if the Cubs pitching could ever hold up. Relying on a starter who walked 115 batters last season to be your ace, while also relying on Mark Prior, Wade Miller, and Kerry Wood to hold up for an entire season, doesn't bode well for the Cubs pitching in 2007.
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Postby StlSluggers » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:00 am

I'm waiting for Pogo to find this thread.
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