Snakes Gould wrote:this is all a stupid argument because jesus's birthday is really in the spring time
Cecil wrote:History records no observation of Christmas before 354, and by that time there was no one around who remembered exactly when Jesus was born. Today, historians have all but given up trying to figure it out. They give his birth date as 6-8 BC (good trick, but this was no ordinary dude) and leave it at that.
Nobody knows exactly why Christ's birthday is celebrated on December 25. One theory holds that this is the right date, postulating that Zachary was high priest and that the Day of Atonement fell on September 24, ergo, John the Baptist was born on June 24 and Christ dropped in exactly six months later on December 25. Modern scholars use this theory to get laughs at cocktail parties.
Another guess works backward from the supposed date of the crucifixion (March 25), figuring that Christ was conceived exactly 33 years before he died, True Believers having no use for fractional numbers. According to the most tenable hypothesis, Christ's birthday was assigned to the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian) because the date had a ready-made pagan holiday, the "Birthday of the Invincible Sun" (or "ancient Saturnalia debauch," as you put it).
The idea that Jesus was a Pisces probably comes from the characterization of that sign as one of spiritualism, humility, compassion, sacrifice, etc. Students of astrology will tell you it's not kosher to work the formula backwards that way.
Not really sure why Cecil is discussing astrology here, but then I didn't read the question this is in answer to. That probably would have explained it.
Snakes is right - Jesus was born in the Spring, as evidenced by the fact that the shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks by night - a springtime activity in the Levant then and now. So why we celebrate it on December 25th is most likely the fact that early church folks liked to usurp pagan holidays for their religious festivals, thereby making them more palatable for the indiginous populations.
Early Christians were efficient marketers, after all.
It's no revelation that Christ was not born on Dec 25 but either way it is irrelevant. It misses the point of what Christians are celebrating on Christmas. Anyway, nobody knows exactly when Christ was born but the shepherds evidence is more speculation than anything. There is better evidence than that to support March but there is just as much, if not more, evidence supporting September.
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Snakes Gould wrote:this is all a stupid argument because jesus's birthday is really in the spring time
I think the placement of Jesus' birthday is more of a symbolic matter than it is factual. December 21 marks the Winter Solstice, which is of course, the shortest day of the calendar year, in terms of daylight. This also marks the day when little by little, gradually, there's more daylight in a day. My theory is that Christmas is placed on December 25 by the founders of the Catholic Church, as symbolism, much like the star over Bethlehem which marked the site of Jesus' birth. The belief of Christ being the light of the world into the darkness plays into the days becoming brighter gradually over time until the Summer Solstice of June 21 in the proceeding calendar year.
I think I'll take it a step further and say that the Church year begins with 4 weeks of Advent, leaving to Christmas, with the end of the preceding Church year, as a symbolic reflection of the end of the world, which coincides with the days becoming less bright.
In addition, the fact that the new calendar year follows the placement of Christmas can be tied up to symbolism. Again, take this as just my personal theory.
Amazinz wrote:It's no revelation that Christ was not born on Dec 25 but either way it is irrelevant. It misses the point of what Christians are celebrating on Christmas. Anyway, nobody knows exactly when Christ was born but the shepherds evidence is more speculation than anything. There is better evidence than that to support March but there is just as much, if not more, evidence supporting September.
I always find it ironic that I was born on Labor Day and now, I'll find it even more so if Jesus was born on the same day.
I don't even want to know what goes on in h0rt's manger.
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
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by Big Pimpin » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:43 pm 
