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Postby Tavish » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:56 pm

bellings wrote:Honestly, this whole discussion makes me lose faith in ERA+. It appears that it using the individual league for the average ERA, not all of MLB. With the way that the American League has been beating the National League like a red-headed step child, I just isn't a good way to compare pitchers.


You want to compare ERAs of AL pitchers to NL pitchers?? The AL had average ERA of 4.97 in 2006, the NL 4.76. And that was one of the closest margins since the inception of the DH. If you compare players across the entire ML you are giving NL pitchers an automatic 5% headstart on AL pitchers.

ERA+ isn't a tremendous stat for a ton of reasons, its mainly good for quick reference and is easy for most people who don't want to learn about the more indepth stats to understand. But relating a pitchers stat to their league makes perfect sense for what the statistic measures.
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Postby acsguitar » Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:23 pm

Tavish wrote:
bellings wrote:Honestly, this whole discussion makes me lose faith in ERA+. It appears that it using the individual league for the average ERA, not all of MLB. With the way that the American League has been beating the National League like a red-headed step child, I just isn't a good way to compare pitchers.


You want to compare ERAs of AL pitchers to NL pitchers?? The AL had average ERA of 4.97 in 2006, the NL 4.76. And that was one of the closest margins since the inception of the DH. If you compare players across the entire ML you are giving NL pitchers an automatic 5% headstart on AL pitchers.

ERA+ isn't a tremendous stat for a ton of reasons, its mainly good for quick reference and is easy for most people who don't want to learn about the more indepth stats to understand. But relating a pitchers stat to their league makes perfect sense for what the statistic measures.


I think you should be on ESPN ;-D
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:28 am

BritSox wrote:Very, very strongly disagree.

Career OPS:

Bonds 1051
Williams 1116

And Williams missed three full seasons of his prime to WWII, and played in a much lesser hitter's era (does anyone have the OPS+ numbers?) The guy's career OBP was .482. Add in the historic value of being the last guy to hit .400, and its is Williams, not Bonds, who is undoubtedly the best ever LF.


Career Ops+

Williams 190
Bonds 182

Add in Bonds superior defense and baserunning, and he's #1 all-time LF.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:33 am

bellings wrote:Oswalt? Are you guys serious? He's never won a Cy Young, rarely gets 200 K's per year, his best WHIP for a full year of pitching is 1.14, and his best ERA is 2.94. Johan has 2 Cy Young's, and has beat Oswalt's best K's, ERA, and WHIP every year for the last 3 years. That's not even close.


Career ERA+

Santana 144
Oswalt 143

Career PRAA

Oswalt 157
Santana 147

Oswalt has about 100 more inings. Santana has the better peak, but career wise it's a push.
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