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Postby The Cow » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:25 am

Hey Agnes, Marte is 23 not 22. His birthdate is 10/21/83. I don't know how many times I have to correct you on this point.

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Postby The Cow » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:44 am

Here is what you said:
So, now the Red Sox have an injured player entering his declining years who is going to cost some major $ to retain. And the Tribe still has a cheap player who looks poised to make a big leap next year. In fact, they are so confident about Marte, they got rid of Kouzmanoff!

1. Crisp did not cost major dollars to retain. He signed a 3 years 15.5 mil deal which is cheap in this market.
2. I fail to see how Marte is poised to make a big leap next year. Is it the .226 BA? The poor showing in the minors?
3. When you said Crisp is entering his declining years, I figured you were high seeing as how Crisp was entering years 26,27,28,29 and 30.
4. The Tribe is confident in Marte as is most of this Cafe. I think the Tribe and the Cafe is in for a letdown as Marte has not improved 1bit he has seemingly stopped developing as a ballplayer over the last 2 years.
5. When the Tribe made the deal for Marte they did not know what they had in Kouz in fact they left him unprotected in last year's rule 5 draft. I will say again that Kouz's development was slowed due to injury, once Kouz was healthy he showed some serious talent. I think there are 2 reasons why the Tribe kept Marte over Kouz:
1. San Diego G.M. Kevin Towers wanted Kouz not Marte.
2. Cleveland G.M. Mark Shapiro had been after Marte hard for a couple years, he finally landed him, now he wants to see what he has got. At least Kouz landed the Tribe Barfield who should be better than Belliard.

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P.S. What happened to your sleeper Vincente "4.50 1.38" Padilla???
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Postby Snakes Gould » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:59 am

you two are ridiculous...does it really even matter???i think its weel known GTWMA is a very knowledgable guy, but even the best guys get some things wrong...you guys are knitpicking back and forth, some more than others, and really its not that big a deal....now if you wanted to rag on GTWMA being completely wrong on soriano, then thatd be a different story }:-) :-b
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Postby bigken117 » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:27 am

The Cow wrote:Hey Agnes, Marte is 23 not 22. His birthdate is 10/21/83. I don't know how many times I have to correct you on this point.

The Cow


So he turned 23 2 months ago. That means all Marte's stats were accrued last season while he was 22. Calling him a 22 year old while looking at his performance last season is spot on.
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:41 am

The Cow wrote:Hey Agnes, Marte is 23 not 22. His birthdate is 10/21/83. I don't know how many times I have to correct you on this point.

The Cow


Hey, Cw, I'm discussing Marte's performance last year when he was 22. Your reading comprehension is a real problem for intelligent discussion.
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:42 am

Snakes Gould wrote:you two are ridiculous...does it really even matter???i think its weel known GTWMA is a very knowledgable guy, but even the best guys get some things wrong...you guys are knitpicking back and forth, some more than others, and really its not that big a deal....now if you wanted to rag on GTWMA being completely wrong on soriano, then thatd be a different story }:-) :-b


Let's just say I have an overactive desire to try to help young people learn.

I will say that I have no problem saying I'm wrong when I'm wrong...Cow?
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:56 am

The Cow wrote:Here is what you said:
So, now the Red Sox have an injured player entering his declining years who is going to cost some major $ to retain. And the Tribe still has a cheap player who looks poised to make a big leap next year. In fact, they are so confident about Marte, they got rid of Kouzmanoff!

1. Crisp did not cost major dollars to retain. He signed a 3 years 15.5 mil deal which is cheap in this market.


Yet, not as cheap as the Tribe's other options. They got more performance for les money last year and over the coming three years look to have a solution that, at worst costs just a touch more, and in all liklihood costs less and gives them better performance. Maybe you don't consider $5 million per year a lot, but as the Tribe showed, you can do better.


The Cow wrote:
2. I fail to see how Marte is poised to make a big leap next year. Is it the .226 BA? The poor showing in the minors?


No, it's your inability to understand what a poor showing is. His minor league performance is not poor. Despite being younger than the average player at each level, he has performed at the level of an average or better major league player. That's REALLY, REALLY, REALLY good.

The Cow wrote:3. When you said Crisp is entering his declining years, I figured you were high seeing as how Crisp was entering years 26,27,28,29 and 30.
4. The Tribe is confident in Marte as is most of this Cafe. I think the Tribe and the Cafe is in for a letdown as Marte has not improved 1bit he has seemingly stopped developing as a ballplayer over the last 2 years.


When you move up a level and maintain your performance, you are not "stopping developing". To move up to AA from A and maintain similar numbers, you have to improve. If you stop developing, your numbers take a big dip.

We've discussed interpreting minor league performance before, Cow, and you continue to ignore very basic things about player development. If you really are an interested baseball fan, you ought to read more about this.


The Cow wrote:
5. When the Tribe made the deal for Marte they did not know what they had in Kouz in fact they left him unprotected in last year's rule 5 draft. I will say again that Kouz's development was slowed due to injury, once Kouz was healthy he showed some serious talent. I think there are 2 reasons why the Tribe kept Marte over Kouz:
1. San Diego G.M. Kevin Towers wanted Kouz not Marte.
2. Cleveland G.M. Mark Shapiro had been after Marte hard for a couple years, he finally landed him, now he wants to see what he has got. At least Kouz landed the Tribe Barfield who should be better than Belliard.


I think the Tribe knows EXACTLY what they had in Kouz, which is why they preferred Marte. Shapiro's pretty damn sharp. Kouz certainly didn't show serious talent matched against the big boys last year. All his major successes have occurred when he was a much older player going against inferior competition. He's not a bad player, but he has nowhere near the long-term potential upside of Marte.


The Cow wrote:The Cow

P.S. What happened to your sleeper Vincente "4.50 1.38" Padilla???


Still ranked 110 at the end of the year, much higher than anyone pegged him pre-season. As with interpreting minor league performance, you fail to understand league differences. If I switch from the NL to the AL as a pitcher and my numbers are the same, I improved, because I am pitching in a league that scores half a run more on average. If I am holding teams at or below league average runs, then I am more likely to win. You say I was "lucky", but I think luck is always the residue of design.
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:10 am

The Cow wrote: I think there are 2 reasons why the Tribe kept Marte over Kouz:
1. San Diego G.M. Kevin Towers wanted Kouz not Marte.
2. Cleveland G.M. Mark Shapiro had been after Marte hard for a couple years, he finally landed him, now he wants to see what he has got. At least Kouz landed the Tribe Barfield who should be better than Belliard.


Just had to add...Towers "wanted" Kouz"?? No, the Indians were shopping Kouz, and not shopping Marte. Unless Towers was planning on sending Peavy to the Tribe, he wasn't going to get Marte.

The biggest problem with Kouz is health. When healthy, he can hitand is a half-decent fielder. But, back and hamstring problems constantly cut into his playing time. His back, in particular, is a degenerative disc problem. It won't get better. Back problems are a horrible drain on power and fielding, especially in the IF. So, 3 years down the road, when the Indians have one of the top 3B in the league and one of the top 2B in the league and still have a cheaper option than Crisp in LF, my prediction is that Kouz will no longer be able to play 3B and will be on the DL awaiting back surgery.

Somebody remind of this in June 2010.
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Postby J35J » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:30 pm

This is painful...... is it not obvious that The Cow just likes to get GTWMA all worked up..... The Cow could care less what GTWMA has to say its just a game for him and a funny one at that! The Cow reminds me an awful lot of that Yankee fan (can't remember his ID) but they are both more knowledgable then people actually think but they are both just more concerned about getting guys like GTWMA panties in a bunch..... can be very entertaining actually!

Anyway, this is a tired subject...... :-°


just my opinion.....

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Postby acapulco » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:44 pm

I agree with you J35J. I guess some people are so afraid of being invisible that they'll do anything to draw attention to themselves.
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