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Postby Yoda » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:22 am

The Cow wrote:
Yoda wrote:
The Cow wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
The Cow wrote:Well if you would have factored in Crisp's 22 SBs, which you didn't because it will show that you were wrong, you will find that Crisp clearly had the better fantasy year, last I checked SBs count. So you say Crisp is entering his declining years huh? Well last I checked which was 2 minutes ago he is 27 years old. A little tip most people consider a 27 year old player as a player entering his prime. Marte being 4 years younger, 23, would then only have 4 years before he hits his declining years according to your reasoning. So I guess we should all consider Pujols as entering his declining years as he is 27, LOL. Do your homework. At least Crisp had an excuse for his down year, he was injured. Marte's excuse would be youth, but you say he is poised for a breakout after his stellar year last year. Crisp has shown that he can be an effective player at the major league level. Marte has done nothing except fall on every prospect list known to man over the last 2 years. For the record I would rather have Kouz over Marte. I just bought my Pads cap yesterday.

The Cow

P.S. If you want to explain how turning 27 means you are entering your declining years, that would be great, lol.



After 27 comes what, Cow? 28, then 29, then 30....Crisp is entering those declining years. I know it's hard when you run out of fingers and toes, but try to work on it.

And if you had bothered to look at the thread, you would see that it had nothing to do with each player's fantasy value. It rather dealt with whether this was a good baseball trade for the two teams and an evaluation of the two players from a baseball, not fantasy ball, perspective.

Trying to dodge this one, Cow, is a pathetic low for you. When I was wrong about Soriano, I didn't dodge it. I was a man and said so. Learn from that example. Repeat after me...Cow was wrong about Crisp. That wasn't so hard was it?


So 28,29 and 30 are declining years?????? Seriously???? Johan is 28 next year, 86 him, VMart is 28 next year 86 him, Berkman is 31 next year, Soriano is 29 next year, Utley 28, Aramis 28, Vlad is done at 31, Bay is 28, Beltran 30, Wells 28 etc..... I guess all of these players are in for a decline. To me these look like players in their prime, but you say they are in their declining years. Seriously???

LOL,
The Cow


Wow... lol... where do you get your stuff from Cow? :-D


I was pointing out how idiotic it is for someone(Agnes) to think that 28,29, 30 are the declining years. When Crisp was traded he was 26, both Crisp(26) and Marte(22) were young at the time of the trade and are still young. Why someone would bring up declining years for a 26 year old, smells of desperation.

The Cow


Have you ever heard of age 27? That is most players' peak (pitchers are different). So yes, I would say past that age would be considered declining unless you have a study that disproves this. I can't believe you do not know this... oh wait nevermind. :-D
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Postby The Cow » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Yoda wrote:
The Cow wrote:
Yoda wrote:
The Cow wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
The Cow wrote:Well if you would have factored in Crisp's 22 SBs, which you didn't because it will show that you were wrong, you will find that Crisp clearly had the better fantasy year, last I checked SBs count. So you say Crisp is entering his declining years huh? Well last I checked which was 2 minutes ago he is 27 years old. A little tip most people consider a 27 year old player as a player entering his prime. Marte being 4 years younger, 23, would then only have 4 years before he hits his declining years according to your reasoning. So I guess we should all consider Pujols as entering his declining years as he is 27, LOL. Do your homework. At least Crisp had an excuse for his down year, he was injured. Marte's excuse would be youth, but you say he is poised for a breakout after his stellar year last year. Crisp has shown that he can be an effective player at the major league level. Marte has done nothing except fall on every prospect list known to man over the last 2 years. For the record I would rather have Kouz over Marte. I just bought my Pads cap yesterday.

The Cow

P.S. If you want to explain how turning 27 means you are entering your declining years, that would be great, lol.



After 27 comes what, Cow? 28, then 29, then 30....Crisp is entering those declining years. I know it's hard when you run out of fingers and toes, but try to work on it.

And if you had bothered to look at the thread, you would see that it had nothing to do with each player's fantasy value. It rather dealt with whether this was a good baseball trade for the two teams and an evaluation of the two players from a baseball, not fantasy ball, perspective.

Trying to dodge this one, Cow, is a pathetic low for you. When I was wrong about Soriano, I didn't dodge it. I was a man and said so. Learn from that example. Repeat after me...Cow was wrong about Crisp. That wasn't so hard was it?


So 28,29 and 30 are declining years?????? Seriously???? Johan is 28 next year, 86 him, VMart is 28 next year 86 him, Berkman is 31 next year, Soriano is 29 next year, Utley 28, Aramis 28, Vlad is done at 31, Bay is 28, Beltran 30, Wells 28 etc..... I guess all of these players are in for a decline. To me these look like players in their prime, but you say they are in their declining years. Seriously???

LOL,
The Cow


Wow... lol... where do you get your stuff from Cow? :-D


I was pointing out how idiotic it is for someone(Agnes) to think that 28,29, 30 are the declining years. When Crisp was traded he was 26, both Crisp(26) and Marte(22) were young at the time of the trade and are still young. Why someone would bring up declining years for a 26 year old, smells of desperation.

The Cow


Have you ever heard of age 27? That is most players' peak (pitchers are different). So yes, I would say past that age would be considered declining unless you have a study that disproves this. I can't believe you do not know this... oh wait nevermind. :-D


Show me the study. If you are able to show me a significant drop-off from age 27 to age 28, 29 or 30 that would be interesting. I will await the results of the study.

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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:55 am

The Cow wrote:Have you ever heard of age 27? That is most players' peak (pitchers are different). So yes, I would say past that age would be considered declining unless you have a study that disproves this. I can't believe you do not know this... oh wait nevermind. :-D


Show me the study. If you are able to show me a significant drop-off from age 27 to age 28, 29 or 30 that would be interesting. I will await the results of the study.

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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:56 am

The Cow wrote:
So 28,29 and 30 are declining years?????? Seriously???? Johan is 28 next year, 86 him, VMart is 28 next year 86 him, Berkman is 31 next year, Soriano is 29 next year, Utley 28, Aramis 28, Vlad is done at 31, Bay is 28, Beltran 30, Wells 28 etc..... I guess all of these players are in for a decline. To me these look like players in their prime, but you say they are in their declining years. Seriously???

LOL,
The Cow


Idiot. Great players who decline are still very, very good.
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Postby ukrneal » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:19 am

Actually, those studies show that the highest number of players peak at that age, not that all do. So it is entirely possibile that Crisp has yet to hit his peak. I wouldn;t exactly say that Crisp is past his prime though - that seems to me a bit exaggerated.

Those studies also show that superstars maintain the higher level of play longer as well, for example Manny or Sheff.
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Postby BritSox » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:46 am

ukrneal wrote:Actually, those studies show that the highest number of players peak at that age, not that all do. So it is entirely possibile that Crisp has yet to hit his peak. I wouldn;t exactly say that Crisp is past his prime though - that seems to me a bit exaggerated.

Those studies also show that superstars maintain the higher level of play longer as well, for example Manny or Sheff.


Yeah- I thought 27 was the modal age, but that a majority of baseball players actually peaked after it?
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:49 am

BritSox wrote:
ukrneal wrote:Actually, those studies show that the highest number of players peak at that age, not that all do. So it is entirely possibile that Crisp has yet to hit his peak. I wouldn;t exactly say that Crisp is past his prime though - that seems to me a bit exaggerated.

Those studies also show that superstars maintain the higher level of play longer as well, for example Manny or Sheff.


Yeah- I thought 27 was the modal age, but that a majority of baseball players actually peaked after it?


No, the majority peak at age 27 or before. Age 27 is the most common peak, with 10-12 percent of ballplayers peaking at that age, IIRC. Age 26 and 28 are also right around 10 percent. and the distribution is essentially symmetric around 27.
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Postby Yoda » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:13 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
BritSox wrote:
ukrneal wrote:Actually, those studies show that the highest number of players peak at that age, not that all do. So it is entirely possibile that Crisp has yet to hit his peak. I wouldn;t exactly say that Crisp is past his prime though - that seems to me a bit exaggerated.

Those studies also show that superstars maintain the higher level of play longer as well, for example Manny or Sheff.


Yeah- I thought 27 was the modal age, but that a majority of baseball players actually peaked after it?


No, the majority peak at age 27 or before. Age 27 is the most common peak, with 10-12 percent of ballplayers peaking at that age, IIRC. Age 26 and 28 are also right around 10 percent. and the distribution is essentially symmetric around 27.


Yep there are a few spikes after age 27 but generally it is a bell curve.
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Postby bigken117 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:17 pm

Without looking it up, I would imagine that speed would see the most steep decline after the age of 27, but power numbers would remain largely unaffected - if not go up as a player learns to adjust to breaking pitches, works out more etc. - so long as a player stays healthy.

The age 28-29 is usually the end for running backs, not corner outfielders.
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Postby J35J » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:35 pm

bigken117 wrote:Without looking it up, I would imagine that speed would see the most steep decline after the age of 27, but power numbers would remain largely unaffected - if not go up as a player learns to adjust to breaking pitches, works out more etc. - so long as a player stays healthy.

The age 28-29 is usually the end for running backs, not corner outfielders.



lol, Agreed!! ;-D



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