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Postby Swinger » Sun Oct 19, 2003 10:29 pm

It'd be funny if the Yankees were contracted, too, but.. its also just as probable.
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Postby mightyian5 » Sun Oct 19, 2003 10:37 pm

hah yeah

hey does anyone else here feel that sheff deserves the NL MVP the most? i feel he had the best overall numbers, and since it matters soo much to all those writers, he was on a winning team.
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Postby Madison » Sun Oct 19, 2003 10:47 pm

mightyian5 wrote:hah yeah

hey does anyone else here feel that sheff deserves the NL MVP the most? i feel he had the best overall numbers, and since it matters soo much to all those writers, he was on a winning team.


No. Sheff is 3rd behind Pujols and Bonds on my list.
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Postby Swinger » Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:02 pm

The giants and the braves were practically equal in postseason progress, and most would say Bonds has the best numbers (although I beg to differ). But Bonds held such a key part in the giants' offense, while Sheff was just part of a killer lineup, that I'd say Bonds would win MVP out of the two.

Now, if i knew how much team victory was a factor, I could compare pujols, too.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:38 pm

mightyian5 wrote:
hey does anyone else here feel that sheff deserves the NL MVP the most? i feel he had the best overall numbers


How does Sheff have the best numbers?

win shares

Pujols 41
Bonds 39
Sheff 35

ops

Bonds 1.278
Pujols 1.106
Sheff 1.023

total runs created

Pujols 159
Bonds 149
Sheff 140

runs created per 27 outs

Bonds 15.11
Pujols 10.79
Sheff 9.13

Sheff is last in every major telling stat.
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Postby mightyian5 » Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:21 am

i was looking more at basic statistics such as:

homers
bonds: 45
puj: 43
sheff: 39 (not too far behind)

rbis
sheff:132
puj: 124
bonds: 90? (i just dont see it right to give the mvp to a man with 90. i dont care HOW many walks he had)

hits
puj: 212 (very nice)
sheff: 190
bonds: 133......

avg
puj: 359
bonds: 341
sheff: 330 ( again, a lil behind, but not too much)

runs
puj: 137
sheff: 126
bonds: 111

total bases
puj: 394
sheff: 348
bonds: 292......

steals
sheff: 18
bonds: 7
puj: 5

now i know some categories such as steals and hits dont really matter all that much in MVP concerns, but i personally feel that runs and rbis are the most valuable of those stats. and bonds is last in both. (again, i really dont care just how many walks he had, final stats are all that matter)

in reality, i really think that pujols deserves it, but sheff is close mainly due to everyones obsession with winning teams as well as very good statistics. bonds however, may be very valuable, but hes not the MOST valuable in my eyes.

if some of you really feel bonds deserves it (not just is GOING to win it) then give me some feedback. id like to see some other views and maybe my eyes will open.
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Postby DK » Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:41 pm

mightyian5 wrote:i was looking more at basic statistics such as:

homers
bonds: 45
puj: 43
sheff: 39 (not too far behind)

rbis
sheff:132
puj: 124
bonds: 90? (i just dont see it right to give the mvp to a man with 90. i dont care HOW many walks he had)

hits
puj: 212 (very nice)
sheff: 190
bonds: 133......

avg
puj: 359
bonds: 341
sheff: 330 ( again, a lil behind, but not too much)

runs
puj: 137
sheff: 126
bonds: 111

total bases
puj: 394
sheff: 348
bonds: 292......

steals
sheff: 18
bonds: 7
puj: 5

now i know some categories such as steals and hits dont really matter all that much in MVP concerns, but i personally feel that runs and rbis are the most valuable of those stats. and bonds is last in both. (again, i really dont care just how many walks he had, final stats are all that matter)

in reality, i really think that pujols deserves it, but sheff is close mainly due to everyones obsession with winning teams as well as very good statistics. bonds however, may be very valuable, but hes not the MOST valuable in my eyes.

if some of you really feel bonds deserves it (not just is GOING to win it) then give me some feedback. id like to see some other views and maybe my eyes will open.


i agree sheff had a very solid year, but i think pujols will get the title. he deserves it more.
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Postby Madison » Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:09 pm

The only chance that Sheff has of winning, is if Pujols and Bonds split the vote and he sneaks past them. It was a very nice season for Sheff, but Pujols/Bonds were better.
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Postby DK » Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:13 pm

Madison wrote:The only chance that Sheff has of winning, is if Pujols and Bonds split the vote and he sneaks past them. It was a very nice season for Sheff, but Pujols/Bonds were better.


agreed.
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Postby HOOTIE » Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:18 pm

Runs and rbis are team dependent stats, that really dont paint a true picture of what a player created himself. Unless a guy hrs, hes totally DEPENDENT on his team for runs and rbis. Runs created shows what a player really created pretty accurately. As a example, P Wilson had 195 abs with risp to Bonds 75. Thats why Wilson had 141 rbis. Rbis really are more based on total chances, (risp), or (baserunners), then actual hitting. There have been quite a few bad hitters, get 100 rbis. Atlanta scored 907 runs, to SF 755, 152 more. Sheffield had many more chances for team dependent totals. You also have to factor in Bonds played in the worst hitters park in bb, yet easily was the ops leader. Hrs are a part of slugging %, and are in ops, so counting them alone is looking at a small piece of the pie. Number of hits is really misleading, as number of abs, and walks effect it. In 01 Ichiro had 257 hits, easily the highest, yet was far, far, from the best hitter that year. The old days of defining success by average, hrs and rbis are long gone. There are better ways to measure success and value. Think of it of upgrading from a 8 track to a cd.
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