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Jays sign Wells for 7 years/$126M

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Postby slomo007 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:57 am

mweir145 wrote:Also, I really hope this means Michael Young will be our top FA target come next offseason. We'll still have our hole at SS, making him the perfect fit, and Young and Wells have always wanted to play together.


I was really hoping they would play together......in Texas. :-[
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Postby AcidRock23 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:33 am

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
AcidRock23 wrote:
GotowarMissAgnes wrote:I really don't regard guys who make the decision to chase free agent dollars as degraded.


They aren't degraded in the chasing, they are degraded later, when they fail to live up to the hype and the fans get on them.


OK, I'm really confused. You wrote:

"It was a great move by the Cards to get him locked up but, to a large degree, he wanted to be locked up there and chose not to degrade himself chasing after free agency they way that other guys seem to be able to do. "

But now you say:
"...They aren't degraded in the chasing..."

I guess we agree that chasing the $ isn't degrading. I guess you regard failing to live up to the expectations as fans as degrading. I guess I'd say I'm willing to be degraded for those kind of free agent $!! Degrade me please.
[/b]


I can't imagine that Alfonso Soriano can't have any question as to his ability to be worth $136 million over the course of his contract, even if he is actually as old as his paperwork says he is. It would be interesting for someone to interview Chan Ho Park or Darren Dreifort on a psychological level and see where they are at after years of being pilloried for failing to live up to their contracts.

While I am not an MLB player, I would feel pretty badly if I did as poor of a job for what those guys are getting. That seems human to me and that is what I am getting at by suggesting that the players are 'degraded' by getting huge contracts that, at least according to the sort of tools used by fantasy baseball players, they do not appear likely to live up to.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:20 am

Less than market value?? I don't see how it is.
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Postby mweir145 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:28 am

Lofunzo wrote:Less than market value?? I don't see how it is.

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying. He's certainly likely to never be worth the money he's getting in this deal, but it had been suggested by many that he would have been a 20M player next year in FA, and that he would decline this deal for that very reason. Rosenthal in that very article points out that a 10 year/200M contract was actually within range of what you would expect Vernon to get had he been a FA next year.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:30 am

Another interesting question to pose to Soriano or perhaps Vernon Wells might be 'do you guys think that you're worth more than Pujols?'.
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Postby mweir145 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:32 am

slomo007 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Also, I really hope this means Michael Young will be our top FA target come next offseason. We'll still have our hole at SS, making him the perfect fit, and Young and Wells have always wanted to play together.


I was really hoping they would play together......in Texas. :-[

Oh well, too bad for you I guess... :-D
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Postby mweir145 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:37 am

AcidRock23 wrote:Another interesting question to pose to Soriano or perhaps Vernon Wells might be 'do you guys think that you're worth more than Pujols?'.

I don't see how this is a valid or fair question to be asking them...the contracts were signed in different markets. It isn't their fault that teams are willing to spend that much money on them. I mean are you really goint to ask Gil Meche if he's better than Johan Santana just because he's making more money than him?
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:47 am

mweir145 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Less than market value?? I don't see how it is.

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying. He's certainly likely to never be worth the money he's getting in this deal, but it had been suggested by many that he would have been a 20M player next year in FA, and that he would decline this deal for that very reason. Rosenthal in that very article points out that a 10 year/200M contract was actually within range of what you would expect Vernon to get had he been a FA next year.


I saw what he wrote but I respectfully disagree with him. Eventually, the market will come crashing down again. It might be next year or it might not. It seems like the $200M plateau is something that owners don't want to do. Putting the $$ aside, that is a prestigious level and you better be a great player before you can expect that level. I don't see how Wells is close to that level. Right after A-Rod signed, Jeter signed his deal. The timing was perfect yet he didn't make that much. I don't think that can be ignored.
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Postby mweir145 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:56 am

Lofunzo wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Less than market value?? I don't see how it is.

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying. He's certainly likely to never be worth the money he's getting in this deal, but it had been suggested by many that he would have been a 20M player next year in FA, and that he would decline this deal for that very reason. Rosenthal in that very article points out that a 10 year/200M contract was actually within range of what you would expect Vernon to get had he been a FA next year.


I saw what he wrote but I respectfully disagree with him. Eventually, the market will come crashing down again. It might be next year or it might not. It seems like the $200M plateau is something that owners don't want to do. Putting the $$ aside, that is a prestigious level and you better be a great player before you can expect that level. I don't see how Wells is close to that level. Right after A-Rod signed, Jeter signed his deal. The timing was perfect yet he didn't make that much. I don't think that can be ignored.

If you had read what I've written throughout this article, you would know that I don't believe Vernon Wells is close to that level, and that's why I wouldn't like this signing as much as some other scenarios. That doesn't have anything to do with his market value, though. What I do know is where his market level is based on what Soriano, Lee, and Drew signed for, as well as speculation amongst media sources (including Rosenthal, who I do trust to have a good read on what GMs are thinking). You'd have to think a younger 3 time Gold-Glove winner with a good bat would be deemed to be better than those 3 by general managers, and would have signed for considerably more than that had he been on the market this year (and next year, as I don't see this market changing that soon).
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:02 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Less than market value?? I don't see how it is.

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying. He's certainly likely to never be worth the money he's getting in this deal, but it had been suggested by many that he would have been a 20M player next year in FA, and that he would decline this deal for that very reason. Rosenthal in that very article points out that a 10 year/200M contract was actually within range of what you would expect Vernon to get had he been a FA next year.


I saw what he wrote but I respectfully disagree with him. Eventually, the market will come crashing down again. It might be next year or it might not. It seems like the $200M plateau is something that owners don't want to do. Putting the $$ aside, that is a prestigious level and you better be a great player before you can expect that level. I don't see how Wells is close to that level. Right after A-Rod signed, Jeter signed his deal. The timing was perfect yet he didn't make that much. I don't think that can be ignored.

If you had read what I've written throughout this article, you would know that I don't believe Vernon Wells is close to that level, and that's why I wouldn't like this signing as much as some other scenarios. That doesn't have anything to do with his market value, though. What I do know is where his market level is based on what Soriano, Lee, and Drew signed for, as well as speculation amongst media sources (including Rosenthal, who I do trust to have a good read on what GMs are thinking). You'd have to think a younger 3 time Gold-Glove winner with a good bat would be deemed to be better than those 3 by general managers, and would have signed for considerably more than that had he been on the market this year (and next year, as I don't see this market changing that soon).


I saw what you wrote about Wells' worth and I agree that he will probably never live up to this contract. I am mainly saying that $200M is hallowed ground. No matter what the market would be, I don't know whether he would have been able to squeak another 3 years and $74M out of some team.
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