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Young & Markakis

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Postby booboo » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:44 pm

I'm darn bullish on both Markakis and Young.
I think the big difference between Markakis and Young is plate discipline. Markakis has alot of it. As a result, Markakis will be more consistent than Young in 2007. Young may have those monster weeks where he's stealing bases and hitting homeruns, but then he'll have ice-cold weeks too.
I think come 2008, both will be top-shelf superstars.

For 2007, I predict

Markaks
.300 BA, .380 OBP, 24 HR, 90 RBI, 8 SB

Young
.290 BA, .330 OBP, 25 HR, 80 RBI, 24 SB

Though, I wouldn't be surprised to see Markakis step into stardom next year & hit 30 homers.
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:55 pm

Half Massed wrote:
Simulacrum wrote:
BravesGuy wrote:I don't know.... 3 home runs in one game is pretty impressive! :-D


urban legend, it's never really happened


Yeah, it's pretty much impossible. This is well-documented.

Some people are really high on Markakis in this thread. He was a decent prospect going into last year, but nothing outstanding. On the other hand, outstanding is generally the word used to describe Young's talent. I don't see the comparison. I'd take Young over Markakis in every draft, although I wouldn't take either of them any kind of early.



I do agree that Young has the higher ceiling. But, Markakis was more than a decent prospect going into last year, if anyone really looked closely (and my views on him are well documented from last spring)

Last spring Sickels gave him an A- and called him a "real stud". Delmon was ratedan A prospect.

On JDM last spring, their compilation on prospect rankings had Markakis as the 35th best prospect in the minors. Delmon was #2.

And others are certainly raising their ratings of Markakis based on his performance last year. It's not unusual for prospects like this to show a 10-15 percent improvement in their first few years in the majors.
http://www.rotoauthority.com/2006/08/th ... pment.html
This also documents why his numbers last year should be carefully considered. They are low because he struggled early, beforemaking the necessary adjustments. There is no doubt he was rushed, but it was because the O' correctly assessed that he was the type of player who coped well with that pressure.

So, Young is no doubt the bigger prospect, but Markakis was more than decent to begin with and certainly improved his comparative standing last year. Furthermore, in terms of make-up, Markakis seems to me to be the type of player who puts a real effort into improvinghis skills. Most of what I've seen from Delmon is a guy who seems to think he can do it all with talent. Sometimes that make-up gets a rude awakening in the MLB. While I expect Young to be the better ballplayer, I would not be surprised to see him flame out early and Markakis have the better career.
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Postby deerayfan072 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:08 pm

booboo wrote:I'm darn bullish on both Markakis and Young.
I think the big difference between Markakis and Young is plate discipline. Markakis has alot of it. As a result, Markakis will be more consistent than Young in 2007. Young may have those monster weeks where he's stealing bases and hitting homeruns, but then he'll have ice-cold weeks too.
I think come 2008, both will be top-shelf superstars.

For 2007, I predict

Markaks
.300 BA, .380 OBP, 24 HR, 90 RBI, 8 SB

Young
.290 BA, .330 OBP, 25 HR, 80 RBI, 24 SB

Though, I wouldn't be surprised to see Markakis step into stardom next year & hit 30 homers.


Youngs plate dioscipline has gotten a lot better. That was the reason the Rays had him down in the minors sooo long. (thats what they said anyway), but he has gotten better and i think he will only omprove.
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Postby The Cow » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:34 am

I think the reason Markakis is so overrated in this thread is that Baltimore has not produced a decent hitting prospect in ages. Thus, you get the Baltimore bandwagon affect with Nicky. I mean when you haven't seen a talented young player in an O's uniform in ages and all of the sudden you see one in Markakis well I don't blame the O's fans for feeling giddy over Markakis. Markakis is a helluva lot more talented than the B.J. Surhoff's of the world or whatever old timer Baltimore typically plays in the OF, Sammy Sosa, Brady Anderson etc... BUT Markakis is not nearly as talented as Young. However Young's lack of power and speed last year is disturbing. Was he previously on steroids???

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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:08 am

thomasps3 wrote:I have got to agree. 1/2 thru last year Markakis was WW pickup in practically any league, this year he is the 2nd coming of Joltin Joe?

I hope these people are in some of my leagues when the year starts....jeez!

I mean, really.
Markais
.291
16
62 RBI
72 R
2 SB

Youkilis
.279
13 HR
72 RBI
100 R
5 SB
?????

I see a comparable more along the lines of a Kevin Youkilis, not a once in a decade Delmon Young. Holee Shmolee.. this thread is just

WRONG


How about Markakis after the ASB pro-rated to a full season:
.311, 28 HR, 86 R, 82 RBI 2 SB.

Cow's talking out of the wrong end, as usual. To say Markakis is a better bet than Young is overstating it, but if the Orioles sit Markakis in the middle of the order, he's a good bet to bat over .300, hit 20+ HRs, and drive in and score 90+ runs. He can't match Young in SBs, but I would not count him out in any other area right now.
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Postby The Cow » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:49 am

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
thomasps3 wrote:I have got to agree. 1/2 thru last year Markakis was WW pickup in practically any league, this year he is the 2nd coming of Joltin Joe?

I hope these people are in some of my leagues when the year starts....jeez!

I mean, really.
Markais
.291
16
62 RBI
72 R
2 SB

Youkilis
.279
13 HR
72 RBI
100 R
5 SB
?????

I see a comparable more along the lines of a Kevin Youkilis, not a once in a decade Delmon Young. Holee Shmolee.. this thread is just

WRONG


How about Markakis after the ASB pro-rated to a full season:
.311, 28 HR, 86 R, 82 RBI 2 SB.

Cow's talking out of the wrong end, as usual. To say Markakis is a better bet than Young is overstating it, but if the Orioles sit Markakis in the middle of the order, he's a good bet to bat over .300, hit 20+ HRs, and drive in and score 90+ runs. He can't match Young in SBs, but I would not count him out in any other area right now.


Agnes name me the O's last couple top home grown hitters. If you have to go all the way back to Cal Ripken I will excuse your giddiness over Markakis.

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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:56 am

The Cow wrote:Agnes name me the O's last couple top home grown hitters. If you have to go all the way back to Cal Ripken I will excuse your giddiness over Markakis.

The Cow


And that's relevant, how?

Markakis performance speaks for itself.
No need to bring up red herrings.

Markakis was an excellent prospect at the start of last season. I'm sorry if you and some of the other readers ar so ignorant of his prospect status, but anyone that paid attention to minor league ball ID'd him as a serious prospect in 2005. He was typically ranked about the 4th or 5th best OF prospect in all of the minor leagues at the start of 2006. Would it really be all that incredible for the #5 OF prospect to end up out-performing the #1 OF prospect? Somebody remind me what round Mike Piazza was chosen and how many catcher prospects were chosen before him? If so many baseball experts missed on that one, I'd hardly be so damned confident that Young is a LOCK.
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Postby mattgini » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:05 am

I'm not an Oriole fan but I am a Markakis fan.

Living in Lancaster PA, we get some Oriole games on TV. What struck me each time I saw him play was how much better Markakis would look from one month to the other. The numbers document this but you could just see it in his face and manner too. The kid is for real.

I saw the same think about Ryan Howard (now of course Markakis won't hit 45+ homers)

But I saw Howard in Reading in AA many times. Each time I saw him, you could tell he made adjustments. This is what Markakis does.

I can't speak for Young. I haven't seen him play. I'd like to hear from fans here who have actually seen him play in Tampa or in the minors. Sometimes that anecdotal observation is more valuable than Bill James like numbers IMO.

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Postby The Cow » Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:55 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
The Cow wrote:Agnes name me the O's last couple top home grown hitters. If you have to go all the way back to Cal Ripken I will excuse your giddiness over Markakis.

The Cow


And that's relevant, how?

Markakis performance speaks for itself.
No need to bring up red herrings.

Markakis was an excellent prospect at the start of last season. I'm sorry if you and some of the other readers ar so ignorant of his prospect status, but anyone that paid attention to minor league ball ID'd him as a serious prospect in 2005. He was typically ranked about the 4th or 5th best OF prospect in all of the minor leagues at the start of 2006. Would it really be all that incredible for the #5 OF prospect to end up out-performing the #1 OF prospect? Somebody remind me what round Mike Piazza was chosen and how many catcher prospects were chosen before him? If so many baseball experts missed on that one, I'd hardly be so damned confident that Young is a LOCK.


You are so quick to throw insults aren't you a peach. I will say a prayer for you. I and most in this forum are far from ignorant to Markakis' prospect status. But I and most in this forum are from ignorant of Young's prospect status. IMO if Young were a prospect of the O's, Yanks or Red Sox this forum would have already inducted Young into the HOF. As it is you have SEEN Markakis play and I am sure he is a good player, BUT you have seen Young play very little in comparison to Markakis, so I understand the bias towards Markakis. And then when you throw in the fact that Baltimore has not produced a hitting prospect since Cal Ripken well I can only imagine that maybe just maybe the O's and the Baltimore media may just have Markakis just a tad over hyped.

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Postby Melo255 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:50 pm

Cow, what are you arguing about? You seem to think that GTWMA said Markakis was better than Young which, if you reread the posts he had, he never said. He flat out said Young is the better prospect, has more talent and should be better. Markakis WAS a great prospect and certainly appears to be headed towards a great career. As long as Delmon doesn't throw all his talent away with complacency, a real possibility, he should outperform almost everybody in the game.

Finally, bringing up the lack of great Orioles prospects in the past is totally irrelevant. Do you actually think that if there were great Oriole prospects 5 years ago that would somehow change the way he feels about Markakis now?
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