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Jason Jennings to the Astros

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Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:57 am

PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...


He's not


He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...


Man, it's getting personal is it? :-? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.

Meche/Jennings-Who's better
Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche
Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche
Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche
Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche
Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ
Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche

and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better ;-7


Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.

You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up. :-D


Maybe you forgot Meche faces one more REAL batters every 3 innings? Instead of you know, the Jeff Suppans of the world.


I am really getting tired of correcting you.

Colorado and Seattle are on the opposite spectrum in terms of baseball environment. Until last season (I'm calling it a fluke), Coors has been the most hitter friendly environment and it wasn't even close. Even all time top pitchers have horrible numbers in Coors. Look it up.

Another important thing you are forgetting is the fact that Jennings has actually stayed healthy in his career vs Meche who has missed significant amount of time due to serious shoulder injuries.

They are the same age and Jennings was a high prospect in the minors.


high prospect, I can't find others right now but JJ top out in the BA top 100 at 87 in 2000, Meche was 78 in 1999 and 82 in 1998.

So they are comparable prospects at the least, Meche might be even better.

edit: I'm done with any Meche talk with you. Let's refocus on what's this thread for, which is how badly the Astros made themselfs to look in this trade.


They were comparable prospects, prior to Meche's injury. Jennings has been the better pitcher and also has a track record of staying healthy. So I don't know how you can say that JJ over Meche is nonsense.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:07 pm

Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...


He's not


He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...


Man, it's getting personal is it? :-? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.

Meche/Jennings-Who's better
Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche
Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche
Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche
Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche
Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ
Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche

and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better ;-7


Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.

You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up. :-D


Maybe you forgot Meche faces one more REAL batters every 3 innings? Instead of you know, the Jeff Suppans of the world.


I am really getting tired of correcting you.

Colorado and Seattle are on the opposite spectrum in terms of baseball environment. Until last season (I'm calling it a fluke), Coors has been the most hitter friendly environment and it wasn't even close. Even all time top pitchers have horrible numbers in Coors. Look it up.

Another important thing you are forgetting is the fact that Jennings has actually stayed healthy in his career vs Meche who has missed significant amount of time due to serious shoulder injuries.

They are the same age and Jennings was a high prospect in the minors.


high prospect, I can't find others right now but JJ top out in the BA top 100 at 87 in 2000, Meche was 78 in 1999 and 82 in 1998.

So they are comparable prospects at the least, Meche might be even better.

edit: I'm done with any Meche talk with you. Let's refocus on what's this thread for, which is how badly the Astros made themselfs to look in this trade.


They were comparable prospects, prior to Meche's injury. Jennings has been the better pitcher and also has a track record of staying healthy. So I don't know how you can say that JJ over Meche is nonsense.


Either way this trade sucks for the Astros

Basically they traded a

Future Juan Pierre-Taveras
Future I don't know, Let's say Jennings, probably better-Hirsh
Future Long reliever-Bucholz

for

1 year of JJ or potentially more years at a high cost
and
somebody who can keep himself in the MLB last year and who had a legendary 16 straight balls for his MLB debut-Asencio
Last edited by PlayingWithFire on Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:08 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...


He's not


He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...


Man, it's getting personal is it? :-? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.

Meche/Jennings-Who's better
Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche
Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche
Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche
Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche
Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ
Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche

and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better ;-7


Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.

You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up. :-D


Maybe you forgot Meche faces one more REAL batters every 3 innings? Instead of you know, the Jeff Suppans of the world.


I am really getting tired of correcting you.

Colorado and Seattle are on the opposite spectrum in terms of baseball environment. Until last season (I'm calling it a fluke), Coors has been the most hitter friendly environment and it wasn't even close. Even all time top pitchers have horrible numbers in Coors. Look it up.

Another important thing you are forgetting is the fact that Jennings has actually stayed healthy in his career vs Meche who has missed significant amount of time due to serious shoulder injuries.

They are the same age and Jennings was a high prospect in the minors.


high prospect, I can't find others right now but JJ top out in the BA top 100 at 87 in 2000, Meche was 78 in 1999 and 82 in 1998.

So they are comparable prospects at the least, Meche might be even better.

edit: I'm done with any Meche talk with you. Let's refocus on what's this thread for, which is how badly the Astros made themselfs to look in this trade.


They were comparable prospects, prior to Meche's injury. Jennings has been the better pitcher and also has a track record of staying healthy. So I don't know how you can say that JJ over Meche is nonsense.


Either way this trade sucks for the Astros


Agreed especially since they will need to fork over Meche type money to retain his services for the next few years.

I hope the Stros had a chance to talk numbers with JJ before trading for him.
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Postby acsguitar » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:10 pm

JTWood wrote:
acsguitar wrote:Jennings is better then meche...Jennings pitched in coors during the helium ball days

Quit mincing your words. Do you think this is a good deal for the Rockies or not?


Jennings is better then Meche.

But Taveras, Hirsh, and Bucholz are better then Jennings
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Postby StlSluggers » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:32 pm

acsguitar wrote:
JTWood wrote:
acsguitar wrote:Jennings is better then meche...Jennings pitched in coors during the helium ball days

Quit mincing your words. Do you think this is a good deal for the Rockies or not?


Jennings is better then Meche.

But Taveras, Hirsh, and Bucholz are better then Jennings

I'm still confused. You haven't mentioned your feelings once yet in this entire thread. I'm pinning you down. Do you like this deal or not?
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Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:37 pm

Any Astros fans hear about this deal? Why did they sour on Hirsh? He seems like he will turn out to be a pretty good pitcher.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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Postby acsguitar » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:42 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
JTWood wrote:
acsguitar wrote:Jennings is better then meche...Jennings pitched in coors during the helium ball days

Quit mincing your words. Do you think this is a good deal for the Rockies or not?


Jennings is better then Meche.

But Taveras, Hirsh, and Bucholz are better then Jennings

I'm still confused. You haven't mentioned your feelings once yet in this entire thread. I'm pinning you down. Do you like this deal or not?


Thats it!! you and me in the parking lot :-D
I'm too lazy to make a sig at the moment
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Postby StlSluggers » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:44 pm

acsguitar wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
JTWood wrote:
acsguitar wrote:Jennings is better then meche...Jennings pitched in coors during the helium ball days

Quit mincing your words. Do you think this is a good deal for the Rockies or not?


Jennings is better then Meche.

But Taveras, Hirsh, and Bucholz are better then Jennings

I'm still confused. You haven't mentioned your feelings once yet in this entire thread. I'm pinning you down. Do you like this deal or not?


Thats it!! you and me in the parking lot :-D

Can we ban ACS for making homosexual advances at another site member? :*)
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Postby acsguitar » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:45 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
JTWood wrote:
acsguitar wrote:Jennings is better then meche...Jennings pitched in coors during the helium ball days

Quit mincing your words. Do you think this is a good deal for the Rockies or not?


Jennings is better then Meche.

But Taveras, Hirsh, and Bucholz are better then Jennings

I'm still confused. You haven't mentioned your feelings once yet in this entire thread. I'm pinning you down. Do you like this deal or not?


Thats it!! you and me in the parking lot :-D

Can we ban ACS for being a homosexual? :*)


I know you are but what am I!!
I'm too lazy to make a sig at the moment
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Postby Simulacrum » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:33 pm

StlSluggers wrote:Can we ban ACS for making homosexual advances at another site member? :*)


Is that what that "Bandolier of Carrots" thing means?

ewww :-P
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