PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...
He's not
He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...
Man, it's getting personal is it? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.
Meche/Jennings-Who's better Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche
and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better
Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.
You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up.
Maybe you forgot Meche faces one more REAL batters every 3 innings? Instead of you know, the Jeff Suppans of the world.
I am really getting tired of correcting you.
Colorado and Seattle are on the opposite spectrum in terms of baseball environment. Until last season (I'm calling it a fluke), Coors has been the most hitter friendly environment and it wasn't even close. Even all time top pitchers have horrible numbers in Coors. Look it up.
Another important thing you are forgetting is the fact that Jennings has actually stayed healthy in his career vs Meche who has missed significant amount of time due to serious shoulder injuries.
They are the same age and Jennings was a high prospect in the minors.
high prospect, I can't find others right now but JJ top out in the BA top 100 at 87 in 2000, Meche was 78 in 1999 and 82 in 1998.
So they are comparable prospects at the least, Meche might be even better.
edit: I'm done with any Meche talk with you. Let's refocus on what's this thread for, which is how badly the Astros made themselfs to look in this trade.
They were comparable prospects, prior to Meche's injury. Jennings has been the better pitcher and also has a track record of staying healthy. So I don't know how you can say that JJ over Meche is nonsense.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...
He's not
He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...
Man, it's getting personal is it? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.
Meche/Jennings-Who's better Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche
and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better
Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.
You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up.
Maybe you forgot Meche faces one more REAL batters every 3 innings? Instead of you know, the Jeff Suppans of the world.
I am really getting tired of correcting you.
Colorado and Seattle are on the opposite spectrum in terms of baseball environment. Until last season (I'm calling it a fluke), Coors has been the most hitter friendly environment and it wasn't even close. Even all time top pitchers have horrible numbers in Coors. Look it up.
Another important thing you are forgetting is the fact that Jennings has actually stayed healthy in his career vs Meche who has missed significant amount of time due to serious shoulder injuries.
They are the same age and Jennings was a high prospect in the minors.
high prospect, I can't find others right now but JJ top out in the BA top 100 at 87 in 2000, Meche was 78 in 1999 and 82 in 1998.
So they are comparable prospects at the least, Meche might be even better.
edit: I'm done with any Meche talk with you. Let's refocus on what's this thread for, which is how badly the Astros made themselfs to look in this trade.
They were comparable prospects, prior to Meche's injury. Jennings has been the better pitcher and also has a track record of staying healthy. So I don't know how you can say that JJ over Meche is nonsense.
Either way this trade sucks for the Astros
Basically they traded a
Future Juan Pierre-Taveras
Future I don't know, Let's say Jennings, probably better-Hirsh
Future Long reliever-Bucholz
for
1 year of JJ or potentially more years at a high cost
and
somebody who can keep himself in the MLB last year and who had a legendary 16 straight balls for his MLB debut-Asencio
Last edited by PlayingWithFire on Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...
He's not
He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...
Man, it's getting personal is it? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.
Meche/Jennings-Who's better Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche
and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better
Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.
You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up.
Maybe you forgot Meche faces one more REAL batters every 3 innings? Instead of you know, the Jeff Suppans of the world.
I am really getting tired of correcting you.
Colorado and Seattle are on the opposite spectrum in terms of baseball environment. Until last season (I'm calling it a fluke), Coors has been the most hitter friendly environment and it wasn't even close. Even all time top pitchers have horrible numbers in Coors. Look it up.
Another important thing you are forgetting is the fact that Jennings has actually stayed healthy in his career vs Meche who has missed significant amount of time due to serious shoulder injuries.
They are the same age and Jennings was a high prospect in the minors.
high prospect, I can't find others right now but JJ top out in the BA top 100 at 87 in 2000, Meche was 78 in 1999 and 82 in 1998.
So they are comparable prospects at the least, Meche might be even better.
edit: I'm done with any Meche talk with you. Let's refocus on what's this thread for, which is how badly the Astros made themselfs to look in this trade.
They were comparable prospects, prior to Meche's injury. Jennings has been the better pitcher and also has a track record of staying healthy. So I don't know how you can say that JJ over Meche is nonsense.
Either way this trade sucks for the Astros
Agreed especially since they will need to fork over Meche type money to retain his services for the next few years.
I hope the Stros had a chance to talk numbers with JJ before trading for him.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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by Yoda » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:57 am I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.
