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Jason Jennings to the Astros

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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:54 am

Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...


He's not


He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...


Man, it's getting personal is it? :-? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.

Meche/Jennings-Who's better
Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche
Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche
Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche
Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche
Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ
Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche

and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better ;-7
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Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:56 am

PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...


He's not


He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...


Man, it's getting personal is it? :-? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.

Meche/Jennings-Who's better
Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche
Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche
Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche
Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche
Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ
Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche

and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better ;-7


Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.

You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up. :-D
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Postby acsguitar » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:16 am

Jennings is better then meche...Jennings pitched in coors during the helium ball days
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:32 am

Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...


He's not


He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...


Man, it's getting personal is it? :-? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.

Meche/Jennings-Who's better
Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche
Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche
Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche
Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche
Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ
Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche

and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better ;-7


Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.

You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up. :-D


Maybe you forgot Meche faces one more REAL batters every 3 innings? Instead of you know, the Jeff Suppans of the world.
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Postby Scooter1027 » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:16 am

PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...


He's not


He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...


Man, it's getting personal is it? :-? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.

Meche/Jennings-Who's better
Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche
Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche
Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche
Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche
Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ
Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche

and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better ;-7


Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.

You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up. :-D


Maybe you forgot Meche faces one more REAL batters every 3 innings? Instead of you know, the Jeff Suppans of the world.


True, the AL to NL comparison is always a difficult one, although I think in this case Jennings still was in the more difficult situation pitching in Coors when he did. A look at his home/road splits in 2002 is the most striking case (5.65 at home, 3.35 away). 2003 was anomolous, but in '04 and '05 his away ERA was better than home. As Yoda stated, his 103 ERA+ (vs. Meche's 96) is a good way to look at it. Bottom line, they're not too far apart, and both represent the definition of pitching mediocrity, although Jennings has the plus side of coming off a good season, whereas Meche does not.

Of course, I wouldn't want either guy at the price their respective new teams paid (55 mil for Meche, Jason Hirsh for Jennings). I think Houston will regret trading that young man. Of course, I think it's addition by subtraction for Houston by getting rid of Taveras. He is a detriment to a team's lineup. What good is speed on the basepaths with a .329 OBP (career)? A career .669 OPS doesn't do it for me, his speed and defense can't make up for his offensive shortcomings. You can't steal first base.
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Postby JTWood » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:12 am

acsguitar wrote:Jennings is better then meche...Jennings pitched in coors during the helium ball days

Quit mincing your words. Do you think this is a good deal for the Rockies or not?
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:10 am

acsguitar wrote:I love the Taveras overrated talk its great.

he's an above average CF'er

He steal 30+ bases each year.

He was almost rookie of the year two years ago.

This year is his 2nD!!! season he batted 278 for an astros team that showed little faith in him.

The astos offense was awful last year therefore his stats probably would have been better on ANY other decent team.

He's 25!!!

Geez..this overrated talk is stupid...its not like the rox's paid for him.

He and 2 other decent players for JJ..

thats a great deal
I don't know if he is overrated but I do know Taveras isn't very good. What are you more impressed with the .329 OBP or the .340 SLG? His defense seems OK but inconsistant. He's a free swinger with no power and if I was a Rockies fan I would pray he doesn't bat leadoff.
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Postby jt787 » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:01 am

JJ is a solid #2 starter atleast.. he has some good stuff. you have to watch him pitch on T.V., and then make your own judgements. He's a horse IMO, gets alot of CG's ;-D
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Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:27 am

PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...


He's not


He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...


Man, it's getting personal is it? :-? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.

Meche/Jennings-Who's better
Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche
Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche
Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche
Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche
Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ
Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche

and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better ;-7


Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.

You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up. :-D


Maybe you forgot Meche faces one more REAL batters every 3 innings? Instead of you know, the Jeff Suppans of the world.


I am really getting tired of correcting you.

Colorado and Seattle are on the opposite spectrum in terms of baseball environment. Until last season (I'm calling it a fluke), Coors has been the most hitter friendly environment and it wasn't even close. Even all time top pitchers have horrible numbers in Coors. Look it up.

Another important thing you are forgetting is the fact that Jennings has actually stayed healthy in his career vs Meche who has missed significant amount of time due to serious shoulder injuries.

They are the same age and Jennings was a high prospect in the minors.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:39 am

Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Yoda wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:for all you guys that says JJ is a proven commodity...


He's not


He is proven... mediocrity. He had one good season but his career ERA is barely league average. Still better than Meche tho...


Man, it's getting personal is it? :-? I can agree that Meche was overpaid. But that JJ is better than Meche? Non sense.

Meche/Jennings-Who's better
Career ERA 4.65/4.74-Meche
Career WHIP 1.44/1.55-Meche
Career K/9 6.35/5.95-Meche
Career BB/9 4.01/4.06-Meche
Career HR/9 1.20/0.99-JJ
Career H/9 8.94/9.87-Meche

and yeah, JJ is better, WAY better ;-7


Personal? Please. I do not stoop that low like 'some' people.

You left out one very significant component in your post. It's called park effect. Maybe you heard of it. ERA+ suggests Jennings has been the better pitcher. Look it up. :-D


Maybe you forgot Meche faces one more REAL batters every 3 innings? Instead of you know, the Jeff Suppans of the world.


I am really getting tired of correcting you.

Colorado and Seattle are on the opposite spectrum in terms of baseball environment. Until last season (I'm calling it a fluke), Coors has been the most hitter friendly environment and it wasn't even close. Even all time top pitchers have horrible numbers in Coors. Look it up.

Another important thing you are forgetting is the fact that Jennings has actually stayed healthy in his career vs Meche who has missed significant amount of time due to serious shoulder injuries.

They are the same age and Jennings was a high prospect in the minors.


high prospect, I can't find others right now but JJ top out in the BA top 100 at 87 in 2000, Meche was 78 in 1999 and 82 in 1998.

So they are comparable prospects at the least, Meche might be even better.

edit: I'm done with any Meche talk with you. Let's refocus on what's this thread for, which is how badly the Astros made themselfs to look in this trade.
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