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Elijah Dukes

Postby deerayfan072 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:38 pm

He has been added to the Rays 40 man Roster. Their is a lot of talk in Tampa that Rocco will be traded for pitching, maybe to the Marlins and that Dukes will be our everday CF out of ST.
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Postby FalcoAtL » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:04 pm

FLA is def. a good fit trade wise for the Rays. Both obviously have what the other really lacks. Hopefully they can steal another stud away as they did with Kazmir.

I'm anxious to see how Dukes does in center as well as at the plate. From what everyone has been saying here he's a lot better than most think.
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Postby deerayfan072 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:16 pm

The rumors are that the Rays are looking at Olsen, or Johnson and maybe another player for Rocco, another possability at CF is BJ Upton, but he has said he does not want to play there.
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Postby deerayfan072 » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:59 pm

Dukes played 1B in the Fall League before injuring his knee. During ST he will get reps at 1st and in the OF. Upton or Rocco is going to need to be moved, but that still does not open a spot for Dukes in the OF, which is why they had him try 1B. I think the Rays wuill give him a shot at 1st, since we have Wigginton playing there now, in ST. If he doesn't make defensive mistakes i think he could take that job and platoon in the OF, if not he probably will go to AAA and play 1st until All-Star break.
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Postby steagles » Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:43 pm

dukes can't go back to durham, so he is pretty much forced to either play in the majors or be traded.

a dukes-crawford-young outfield would be pretty sweet, even though i'm not that high on delmon.
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Postby dcskater619 » Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:34 pm

steagles wrote: even though i'm not that high on delmon.


hahaha... that makes 1
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Postby steagles » Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:43 pm

dcskater619 wrote:
steagles wrote: even though i'm not that high on delmon.


hahaha... that makes 1
i put him at number 4 as far as hitting prospects go, behind gordon , dukes, and butler. as far as i'm concerned, he hasn't developed the patience at the plate necessary to become a middle of the lineup slugger.

yes he has outstanding tools. but so do 20 other outfielders in the minors. what seperates a guy like dukes from a guy like delmon is that dukes has learned that taking a walk isn't a bad thing. laying off of bad pitches actaully leads to better power numbers.

i would not at all be surprised if jay bruce, chris young, andrew mccutchen, colby rasmus, cameron maybin, justin upton, felix pie, and adam jones end up having better careers than young. young's talent is not so great so as to make up for all of his apparent shortcomings at the major league level.

by the way, i really, really like elijah dukes. i think he is a flat out stud.
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Postby Koby Schellenger » Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:32 pm

Delmon Young is not a "middle of the order slugger."

While OBP is a valuable commodity for a baseball team, it is not the only thing that matters, nor is it very reliable when judged on minor league numbers.. There are many successful hitters who are like Delmon Young in their ability to combine speed and power that do not have tremendous OBPs. Players like Bill Hall, Matt Holliday, Alfonso Soriano and and Vlad Guerero have succeeded despite lower walk rates.

Further, there are many players who presently draw a lot of walks at the big league level and did not draw nearly that level in the minor leagues for a variety of reasons. Ryan Howard has increased his walk rate by about 50% at the ML level. Pujols nearly doubled his walk rate. David Ortiz, Carlos Beltran and many others experience spikes in their OBP after reaching the major leagues.

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Postby deerayfan072 » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:41 pm

steagles wrote:dukes can't go back to durham, so he is pretty much forced to either play in the majors or be traded.

a dukes-crawford-young outfield would be pretty sweet, even though i'm not that high on delmon.


why do you say this? :-?
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Postby steagles » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:53 pm

Koby Schellenger wrote:Delmon Young is not a "middle of the order slugger."

While OBP is a valuable commodity for a baseball team, it is not the only thing that matters, nor is it very reliable when judged on minor league numbers.. There are many successful hitters who are like Delmon Young in their ability to combine speed and power that do not have tremendous OBPs. Players like Bill Hall, Matt Holliday, Alfonso Soriano and and Vlad Guerero have succeeded despite lower walk rates.

Further, there are many players who presently draw a lot of walks at the big league level and did not draw nearly that level in the minor leagues for a variety of reasons. Ryan Howard has increased his walk rate by about 50% at the ML level. Pujols nearly doubled his walk rate. David Ortiz, Carlos Beltran and many others experience spikes in their OBP after reaching the major leagues.

[/i]


vlad seems to be the best case scenario for what delmon might be, so let's use him as a comp:

Code: Select all
vlad:

1996: age 19, SAL (A),    .333/.383/.544,   30 bb,   45 k   
1997: age 20, FSL (A+),  .363/.388/.650,   3 bb,   10 k
      age 20, EL (AA),   .360/.438/.612,   51 bb,   42 k
      age 20, MLB,      .185/.185/.296,   0 bb,     3 k
1998: age 21, MLB,      .302/.350/.483,   19 bb,  39 k

delmon:

2004: age 18, SAL (A),    .320/.386/.536,   53 bb,   120 k   
2005: age 19, SOU (AA),  .336/.386/.582,  25 bb,   66 k 
      age 19, INT (AAA),  .285/.303/.447,  4 bb,    33 k   
2006: age 20, INT (AAA),  .316/.341/.474, 15 bb,   65 k
      age 20 MLB,         .317/.336/.476,  1 bb,    24 k   



vlad is most definately a hacker, but his plate discipline was noticablty better than that of delmon. he even walked more often than he struck out at AA.

as i said, i;m not that high on him.
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