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Postby Yoda » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:50 pm

acsguitar wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
acsguitar wrote:I don't consider myself a "racist" but it sure didn't make it easier for me to trust a certain race unfortunately.


I don't want to turn this into a race debate, but if the people who did this to you would have been of your race, would you find it hard to trust people the same race as you?


All I'm saying as a 12 year old if that it obviously wasn't the best "impression" made on me.

As impressionable young people alot of things make up who we are and unfortunately that situation didn't sit well with me at all. Had it been a white kid who did it I probably would've taken something from it. Maybee the way he dresses maybee his accent.. who knows.

I see where you are coming from. I think however, that its hard to call everyone a racist and not understand any background to the situation. I definitly don't trust every white person nor every black person nor mexican nor whatever....I'm just saying that that specific situation didn't exactly make a good impression on me.

When it comes down to it I've learned that its the color of your skin that makes a difference but rather your charecter.

I learned alot about racism when I went to college in south carolina and you really learn the ins and outs of racism.

Going into college I tried to be pretty open to everyone. However, Charleston is pretty segregated. The black kids didn't wanna hang out with the white kids and the other way around. Lets just say some of the worst people I've met are white guys in South Carolina.

Anyways my point was that currently I don't consider myself a racist but the trust issue is something I will need to work on. I've had many black, mexican, jewish, gay etc... friends. I'm open to everyone. I think I'm just not a trusting person with anyone to begin with. But it does make it hard if a certain type of person keeps picking on you obviously you are going to make associations.

Another point to my obviously long rant....When I got to college I didn't wanna be a frat kid so I wasn't. When I would rarely go to their parties I was treated like crap and people always tried to pick fights with me. I at the time had long hair and was pretty much a stoner kid. From that point on I didn't trust frat kids. However, I've learned that you can't lump a whole group of people into one category. Its something I need to work on but I'm not afraid to admit it. Is it worse for me to say that a black kid stole from me and it hurt my impression of them then to just ignore it and pretend thats just the way it is.

Anyways big ups respek


racist pig!
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Postby acsguitar » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:55 pm

Yoda wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
acsguitar wrote:I don't consider myself a "racist" but it sure didn't make it easier for me to trust a certain race unfortunately.


I don't want to turn this into a race debate, but if the people who did this to you would have been of your race, would you find it hard to trust people the same race as you?


All I'm saying as a 12 year old if that it obviously wasn't the best "impression" made on me.

As impressionable young people alot of things make up who we are and unfortunately that situation didn't sit well with me at all. Had it been a white kid who did it I probably would've taken something from it. Maybee the way he dresses maybee his accent.. who knows.

I see where you are coming from. I think however, that its hard to call everyone a racist and not understand any background to the situation. I definitly don't trust every white person nor every black person nor mexican nor whatever....I'm just saying that that specific situation didn't exactly make a good impression on me.

When it comes down to it I've learned that its the color of your skin that makes a difference but rather your charecter.

I learned alot about racism when I went to college in south carolina and you really learn the ins and outs of racism.

Going into college I tried to be pretty open to everyone. However, Charleston is pretty segregated. The black kids didn't wanna hang out with the white kids and the other way around. Lets just say some of the worst people I've met are white guys in South Carolina.

Anyways my point was that currently I don't consider myself a racist but the trust issue is something I will need to work on. I've had many black, mexican, jewish, gay etc... friends. I'm open to everyone. I think I'm just not a trusting person with anyone to begin with. But it does make it hard if a certain type of person keeps picking on you obviously you are going to make associations.

Another point to my obviously long rant....When I got to college I didn't wanna be a frat kid so I wasn't. When I would rarely go to their parties I was treated like crap and people always tried to pick fights with me. I at the time had long hair and was pretty much a stoner kid. From that point on I didn't trust frat kids. However, I've learned that you can't lump a whole group of people into one category. Its something I need to work on but I'm not afraid to admit it. Is it worse for me to say that a black kid stole from me and it hurt my impression of them then to just ignore it and pretend thats just the way it is.

Anyways big ups respek


racist pig!


Only a short green person with dyslexia would say something like that :-D
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Postby Phatferd » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:55 pm

I have to give ACS a lot of credit. His response to a loaded question was very thought out and had a lot of merit to it, imo. People want to walk around the race issue like broken glass, and I think the biggest thing in regards to race is perception. I am not saying it's right, but I think one would have to study psychology in depth to understand why people have certain thoughts towards a specific group. Our brains act in a weird way and can wire itself one way and it takes a lot of work to rewire it.
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Postby Art Vandelay » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:09 pm

ACS-
Thanks for the well-thought-out response. Despite what some people may have thought from reading my question, I wasn't trying to elicit a certain answer or provoke a flame war, and I appreciate you not getting all defensive in your responce. Anyway, the reason I brought it up in the first place is because I've had similar discussions with friends in the past, and in fact talked about something similar with my brother just last week. He had recently had a run-in with a group of black teenagers at his work and he had expressed a sentiment almost exactly the same as yours. I reminded him of the numerous times that we had had conflicts with people of our race and asked why none of those made him distrust white people, but a couple of bad circumstances involving black people and he found himself being distrustful of an entire race. I couldn't explain it, neither could he.

Anyway, I wanted to respond to this:
acsguitar wrote:I see where you are coming from. I think however, that its hard to call everyone a racist and not understand any background to the situation.

I know you didn't necessarily say that I did, but I wanted to make sure it was clear that I wasn't calling you a racist. Just like I know my brother isn't a racist, I'm pretty sure you're not one either, and there was no evidence that you were in your post. I wouldn't call anyone who I didn't know a racist. Although that doesn't mean that someone could say something that is racist...not that what you said was racist. Jesus...I'm rambling.

I think it has more to do with fearing and distrusting what is unfamiliar (which in many cases is a different race), than it does anyting to do with a particular race, per se. A few bad instances with people of one's own race would most likely not give them a bad feeling towards the entire race because they probably have a lot of experience to base it against, whereas a few bad instances with people of a race that someone doesn't have a lot of experience with is more likely to affect them...or something.

And finally, I think it's important, for all of us, that any time we find ourselves saying "I'm not racist, but" we seriously consider what we're about to say and why. And I'm not necessarily talking about your previous post here...just speaking in generalities.
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:22 pm

Hey, I used to work at a restaurant in my college town and the vast majority of the black guys who came in didn't tip. I'm sorry, that's not me being racist or insensitive; they didn't tip. When a group of black guys walked in, I intentionally turned up the courteous server routine. I refilled their drinks, I quickly and efficiently fulfilled their orders and I promptly acknowledged their requirements, which more often than not were rude and unreasonable. It's possible that this is a double stereotype; that they don't tip because of bad experiences with white servers in the past, and if that's the case it is unfortunate and I'll acknowledge that as being a significant problem.

The disparity was less with black women, but the disparity between them and whites were significant as well. I have no racist reaction to this, but it's a stereotype that I happen to know is true first hand. I've brought this up in social situations before and I've been regarded with disgust. I'm bringing it up here, if for no other reason, that some stereotypes are unfortunately true and if I was a part of this demographic I feel as if I would consciously try to buck the trend while having a disappointment for my peers who have perpetuated the stereotype in the first place.

By no means am I implying that all white people tip and all black people do not; but I should point out the fact that the disparity is significant. It may be due to ignorance or lack of social knowledge rather than rudeness or race specificity, but it's there. Stereotypes are sometimes borne of personal experience rather than a misperception, but I feel that at that point it's no longer a stereotype but an unfortunate reality.
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Postby acsguitar » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:36 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
Anyway, I wanted to respond to this:
acsguitar wrote:I see where you are coming from. I think however, that its hard to call everyone a racist and not understand any background to the situation.

I know you didn't necessarily say that I did, but I wanted to make sure it was clear that I wasn't calling you a racist. Just like I know my brother isn't a racist, I'm pretty sure you're not one either, and there was no evidence that you were in your post. I wouldn't call anyone who I didn't know a racist. Although that doesn't mean that someone could say something that is racist...not that what you said was racist. Jesus...I'm rambling.

I


yea I didn't mean to say you were calling me a racist I know you weren't. I was just saying in general. Like the seinfeld "I like their race how is that racist!"

I think I'm really judgemental about people in a exagerrated way.

For example there were so many darn hippies at my school that I would say "Stupid dirty hippies are always smelling bad". Now I know thats not the entire "subculture" of hippies that thats true about...but oh wait yes it is sorry I have no point.
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Postby ayebatter » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:29 am

Brit - sorry to hear your story, my advice is to get yourself a 'F--- with me look' and your dead meat, i've been all over the world, in all sorts of sticky situations and the 'F--- with me look' works. Get that and a big F'n stick in one hand and a gun in the other.
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Postby RugbyD » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:42 am

Coppermine wrote:Hey, I used to work at a restaurant in my college town and the vast majority of the black guys who came in didn't tip. I'm sorry, that's not me being racist or insensitive; they didn't tip. When a group of black guys walked in, I intentionally turned up the courteous server routine. I refilled their drinks, I quickly and efficiently fulfilled their orders and I promptly acknowledged their requirements, which more often than not were rude and unreasonable. It's possible that this is a double stereotype; that they don't tip because of bad experiences with white servers in the past, and if that's the case it is unfortunate and I'll acknowledge that as being a significant problem.

The disparity was less with black women, but the disparity between them and whites were significant as well. I have no racist reaction to this, but it's a stereotype that I happen to know is true first hand. I've brought this up in social situations before and I've been regarded with disgust. I'm bringing it up here, if for no other reason, that some stereotypes are unfortunately true and if I was a part of this demographic I feel as if I would consciously try to buck the trend while having a disappointment for my peers who have perpetuated the stereotype in the first place.

By no means am I implying that all white people tip and all black people do not; but I should point out the fact that the disparity is significant. It may be due to ignorance or lack of social knowledge rather than rudeness or race specificity, but it's there. Stereotypes are sometimes borne of personal experience rather than a misperception, but I feel that at that point it's no longer a stereotype but an unfortunate reality.

My bro works in the food/drink service industry and all the balck people he wroks with hate serving non-industry black people b/c they don't tip, and we're not just talking about Scottie Pippen, who is denied service at many places in the city.
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Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:31 am

Sorry to hear about that, Brit. I remember when I had taken the Tube in London one time and a few teenage kids were trying to start beef with me because I wore a Lakers jersey, but I scared them off with a litany of curses and a threat to knock the snot out of them. Surely, press charges.

I liked what ACS posted too. I think it's good to be honest about our feelings about the way we look at certain groups of people because our culture is stressing too much about political correctness and trying to walk the line of not offending everyone, but when the taboos are set, I think it drives society and the diverse groups that make up society further apart.

For example, Los Angeles is a melting pot of all races, all cultures, and all diverse things which make us different and make us stand out. I find that it's easier for folks in LA to be friendly with each other amongst races, ethnicities, and what have you, but my theory is that L.A. is very much divided for the simple fact that the vibe in this town is "if you don't mess with me, I won't mess with you" and leave it at that...and I think that can be dehumanizing, but it's a fact of life: the world is Hell on Earth. I believe that ever since the L.A. Riots, the general attitude is that no one wants to talk about interracial relations and the underlying racism there out of fear for the ramifications that will or could emerge from that. That can be a dangerous thing when there is no dialogue between different groups of people. I believe the same can be said about America as a whole.
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Postby BritSox » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:01 am

Art Vandelay wrote: I reminded him of the numerous times that we had had conflicts with people of our race and asked why none of those made him distrust white people, but a couple of bad circumstances involving black people and he found himself being distrustful of an entire race. I couldn't explain it, neither could he.



I think it's something to do with sample size. You know, if you grow up in an environment when people of your own race are far in the majority, you'll have hundreds of non-negative interactions with such people. So, even if you have a few bad experiences with same-race people, they'll be a tiny minority of encounters you have with that race.

Whereas, with the minority race, one or two bad incidents might make up a decent proportion of your dealings with said people. Say I have one coworker, who happens to be, oh I don't know, Canadian. My only other experience of Canadians apart from this guy and his family is a guy I got in a bar fight with because he thought I was looking at him funny. I don't have enough information to know that my coworker, who's a really nice guy, rather than the jerk in the bar, is the rule and not the exception. If I went and lived for a significant period in Canada, I'm sure that would change things.

Another big thing, I think, the whole 'Well I'm [Race X] and I'm not a jerk, nor's my mother, so it can't be inherent in us to be like that.'

It's not just a race thing of course- women who've been raped often have difficulty trusting men in general, a middle-aged guy who's been mugged by a teenager might feel insecure walking past youths, people whose only experience of live Football is an Eagles game... you get the drift.
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