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Ballot measures?

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Postby Phatferd » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:03 pm

Coppermine wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:
Phatferd wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:I like these that all passed here (overwhelmingly):

Prop. 100 - No bail for illegal immigrants

Prop. 102 - Limits on lawsuit damages for illegal immigrants

Prop. 103 - English as state's official language

Prop. 300 - Limit education services for illegal immigrants


W00t! ;-D


I don't generally like comparing modern-day things to slavery, but I think it's worth noting here that slaves as well were unable to post bail, unable to bring a lawsuit or bear witness in court, not allowed to speak their native tongues, and unable to be schooled. It was against the law to teach a black person how to read in most slave states. Woot indeed.


Unlike slaves, who were taken from their homes and forced to work at the wont of whoever owned them, these people have choices. If they make the choice to come here legally and pay taxes and such, then I've got no problem with them reaping the benefits of belonging to our society. If they make the choice to scurry across the border and setup shop illegally, I've got no problem with not giving them the same rights as our citizens. No problem whatsoever.


I just want the signs at the Filibertos to be in English so I know what hidden gems there are. I stick with the taco, burrito and torta. It's Pollo or Carne Asada...I have no idea what the other 12 styles of tacos and burritos are...


Sorry man, private businesses are not affected. :-/ :-b


I think authentic Taco stands should be allowed to print their menu in Spanish. Google ranchos huevos if you have to.


It was a joke Cu.

I don't have google with me when I am standing at the counter....Duh!!!
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Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:13 pm

How can all of you free market guys be against hiring immigrants at low wages? Wont the market work itself out? Isn't keeping immigrants out of the work force an unnatural way of inflating wages? Kind of like mandatory minimum wages?

I can't buy into the fact that I, or anyone else, am more deserving of a good education and the protections that exist on our books, like being able to file a lawsuit, because I was born on the right side of an imaginary line in the sand.

And if nothing should be based on "race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin," as has been stated in this thread...then what, I would ask, are these laws based on? I'm sure they are very carefully worded to not include anything specifically relating to spanish or hispanics, but you can't deny that these laws in Arizona are directed specifically at a certain segment of the population that can be differentiated by their race, color, ethnicity or national origin.
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Postby Coppermine » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:49 pm

Phatferd wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:
Phatferd wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:I like these that all passed here (overwhelmingly):

Prop. 100 - No bail for illegal immigrants

Prop. 102 - Limits on lawsuit damages for illegal immigrants

Prop. 103 - English as state's official language

Prop. 300 - Limit education services for illegal immigrants


W00t! ;-D


I don't generally like comparing modern-day things to slavery, but I think it's worth noting here that slaves as well were unable to post bail, unable to bring a lawsuit or bear witness in court, not allowed to speak their native tongues, and unable to be schooled. It was against the law to teach a black person how to read in most slave states. Woot indeed.


Unlike slaves, who were taken from their homes and forced to work at the wont of whoever owned them, these people have choices. If they make the choice to come here legally and pay taxes and such, then I've got no problem with them reaping the benefits of belonging to our society. If they make the choice to scurry across the border and setup shop illegally, I've got no problem with not giving them the same rights as our citizens. No problem whatsoever.


I just want the signs at the Filibertos to be in English so I know what hidden gems there are. I stick with the taco, burrito and torta. It's Pollo or Carne Asada...I have no idea what the other 12 styles of tacos and burritos are...


Sorry man, private businesses are not affected. :-/ :-b


I think authentic Taco stands should be allowed to print their menu in Spanish. Google ranchos huevos if you have to.


It was a joke Cu.

I don't have google with me when I am standing at the counter....Duh!!!


Yeah, i was joking too; sorry Phat, I forgot to emote :-b
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Postby Big Pimpin » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:50 am

Art Vandelay wrote:How can all of you free market guys be against hiring immigrants at low wages? Wont the market work itself out? Isn't keeping immigrants out of the work force an unnatural way of inflating wages? Kind of like mandatory minimum wages?


I think you're right. But the way I look at it is I'd rather pay a little more for my lawncare (this is an example, I actually do it myself but most people down here don't) and pay less in taxes because I'm not funding all the public welfare benefits they get, including schooling, etc. I think we win in the long run if everyone takes that viewpoint.

Art Vandelay wrote:I can't buy into the fact that I, or anyone else, am more deserving of a good education and the protections that exist on our books, like being able to file a lawsuit, because I was born on the right side of an imaginary line in the sand.


Do you enjoy the same rights as Mexican citizens if you're in Mexico? Hell no! They'll throw you in jail just for being there and looking at the wrong person the wrong way. Do they translate everything into English for you? Hell no! Will they pay for you to eat and see a doctor and go to school? Hell no! Why is our job to support the people that come here and want those things?

Art Vandelay wrote:And if nothing should be based on "race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin," as has been stated in this thread...then what, I would ask, are these laws based on? I'm sure they are very carefully worded to not include anything specifically relating to spanish or hispanics, but you can't deny that these laws in Arizona are directed specifically at a certain segment of the population that can be differentiated by their race, color, ethnicity or national origin.


You're right about this, these laws are aimed specifically at Mexican nationals who are here illegally. And it's actually the reason that I thought some of these weren't going pass as soundly as they did (if at all). But what I can tell you is that based on the results of the voting, Arizonans are tired of the illegals streaming into our state, tired of supporting them, and ready and willing to make this place less attractive for them to be.
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Postby luckygehrig » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:04 am

Nevada Ballot Questions wrote:Question 1 Education First
1,878 of 1,913 precincts - 98%
x-Yes, 304,682 - 55%
No, 251,965 - 45%


Question 4 Secondhand Smoke
1,878 of 1,913 precincts - 98%
Yes, 269,219 - 48%
x-No, 291,793 - 52%

Question 5 Clean Air
1,878 of 1,913 precincts - 98%
x-Yes, 303,842 - 54%
No, 258,300 - 46%

Question 6 Minimum Wage
1,878 of 1,913 precincts - 98%
x-Yes, 385,818 - 69%
No, 175,898 - 31%

Question 7 Legal Marijuana
1,878 of 1,913 precincts - 98%
Yes, 247,695 - 44%
x-No, 314,237 - 56%


Here's some of the more interesting ones from Nevada. Question 1 forces our legislature to fund our education system before anything else in the budget. This one was big because 2 years ago, they basically held our budget hostage when they couldn't fund our schools along with everything else. Schools almost didn't start on time and hiring was frozen for a few months for all the schools.

Questions 4 and 5 were interesting. They were both versions of smoking bans. 5 was slightly more restrictive (it includes bars with a food-handling license whereas 4 did not.) Both of them restrict smoking in just about every public building except for casinos. 4 was backed by the tobacco industry and casinos, but there was a big push by the citizens for 5. If both had passed we would have had a big deal in the courts where they would have to decide which one to enforce.

Question 6 raised our state minimum wage to $6.15 with allowances for further increases in the future based on inflation.

Question 7 would have made it legal for persons above the age of 21 to possess up to an ounce of marijuana for private use. It also would have increased penalties for felony DUI's (DUI causing death, serious bodily harm, or 3rd DUIs) to 40 years. The minimum however would have remained the same. As a criminal justice major (and hopefully a future lawyer) I think it would have been interesting to see this one pass. (Just for full disclosure, I voted No on this one.) There would have been a ton of legal battles over this and it would have been interesting to see if the feds stepped in to enforce their laws over the state law. Also I think it would have been a big deal about testing for DUIs. Can't THC only be detected by a blood test? I think it would have been interesting to see all the people refusing to give blood samples when pulled over for suspicion of DUI of marijuana. It was kind of a big deal around the Reno area not too long ago too, when a Reno Police officer on a motorcycle was hit by a lady pulling out of a parking lot and was killed. They tested her blood and it came back with THC in it and she was sentenced to 2 years in prison. She hadn't smoked for something like two weeks, but was still technically DUI. From what I've heard THC will stay active in your system for 28 days after a hit, so would you have to bum rides, walk, or ride the bus for 28 days? I think it's good that this didn't pass because our court systems would be tied up with legal battles for years over this.

Anyways, those were some of the more interesting ones.

Debate. :-b
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Postby Coppermine » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:13 am

THC can be detected in urine; hence pee-in-the-cup tests.

But that's a great point lucky, I never thought about the legal problems involved in someone testing positive for THC while driving even they smoked a joint two weeks before. I know it stays in your system for about a month. You would think there would be some way of knowing that the person being tested was immediately under the influence.

Hmm, might have to Google this one :-?
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Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:39 am

Big Pimpin wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:I can't buy into the fact that I, or anyone else, am more deserving of a good education and the protections that exist on our books, like being able to file a lawsuit, because I was born on the right side of an imaginary line in the sand.


Do you enjoy the same rights as Mexican citizens if you're in Mexico? Hell no! They'll throw you in jail just for being there and looking at the wrong person the wrong way. Do they translate everything into English for you? Hell no! Will they pay for you to eat and see a doctor and go to school? Hell no! Why is our job to support the people that come here and want those things?


Because we are the greatest nation on earth.

Part of what makes the US great is that we all enjoy equal rights and freedoms. Are our rights not "unalienable" and granted to everyone? I don't recall anywhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Bill of rights where it says "except Mexicans." I hate the argument that we wouldn't be granted the same treatment in Mexico that Mexican immigrants are granted here. So what? Since when do we hold ourselves to the same standard as Mexico? I also don't expect to be able to drink tap water in Mexico, but I like that I'm able to do so here, and I think it should remain that way.
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Postby Madison » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:03 pm

I've stayed out of the debate about English and immigrants, but seeing as how I deal with this thing every single day here in Texas, I might as well toss my hat in the ring too.

I've got no issues with legal immigrants at all. Come on in, learn the language, become a citizen, pay your taxes, don't break the law, and all is good. ;-D

However, when the state has to flush money down the toilet to print up everything in both English and Spanish simply because people refuse to learn English, steps have to be taken. There are classes all over the city to teach English to those who don't know it. The classes are free, we have bus routes everywhere if transportation is the problem, and they run all kinds of hours. No excuse whatsoever for someone to be in this country, and not speak English.

Tack on "common courtesy" for the country that's giving the person in question an opportunity to better their lives, and there's even more of a reason for people to learn English.

Not to mention the precedent all of this sets. So we cater and baby the hispanics that refuse to learn English, and print everything up in English and Spanish. What's next? French? Russian? Chinese? We did it for the hispanics, so on what grounds would the state say "no" to doing it for another language? I can see it now, my son already brings home duplicate school notes in English and Spanish. At this rate, he will eventually bring home a folder full of foreign languages simply to tell me he's got a field trip. Yeah, that's a real good use of taxpayer money. ;-7

This country speaks English. It's not news to anyone, it hasn't recently changed, and it's not some new shocking revelation or anything. If someone wants to be here and have the opportunity this country provides, the least they can do is learn to communicate in the language the country speaks. Simple as that.
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Postby acsguitar » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:46 pm

Some Close Legalize Marijuana votes...

Nevada the closest.

Within the next 10 years pot should be legal ;-D
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Postby Amazinz » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:56 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:Part of what makes the US great is that we all enjoy equal rights and freedoms. Are our rights not "unalienable" and granted to everyone? I don't recall anywhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Bill of rights where it says "except Mexicans."

Our rights are not inalienable. The phrase "unalienable rights" in the Declaration is referring to basic human rights. The U.S. is not denying inalienable rights by preventing illegral immigrants.
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