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Ballot measures?

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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:33 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote: Don't minors have to have their parents/guardians sign off on any surgery/medical procedure?


thats what i was wondering. forget abortion for a minute, i think any minor should have to get guardian notification for any elective surgical procedure. someone has to attest that they fully comprehend all of the risks.
Last edited by j_d_mcnugent on Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ironman » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:51 pm

The number of same-sex marriage bans that passed blew me away. I just don't understand why people are so adamantly against it that they need a frickin' amendment. It just seems so silly.
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Postby KPucks » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:05 pm

I am still confuse about what went on here in Virginia. We elected a Democratic senator but soundly outlawed gay marriage and civil unions by passing the amendment. I don't really care about the senator thing because I didn't find either to be a great choice, but I just don't understand the gay marriage/civil union amendment. Gay marriage is already against the law (I also don't agree with this. Why should the government be dictating our morals?), and this amendment is just full of holes that are going to come back to haunt us.
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Postby mikhayl » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:08 pm

acsguitar wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:For the life of me, I cannot understand how or why anti-gay marriage laws and ammendments continue to get passed.


I'm not sure either but I see that ending in the next few years


It's like the anti-civil rights movement. Before real progress was made, all the old racists had to die off. Plenty of stodgy jerks will die in the next couple of decades and we can start doing what's right.
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Postby Coppermine » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:10 pm

You know what they say; gays are the new blacks.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:29 pm

In Arizona, we boosted minimum wage to $6.75 too... :-/

Also, we were the first state where a gay marriage ban was defeated. Well it's not for sure defeated yet, but certainly looks that way. In any case, they did a very good job of advertising against it by not using anything related to gay marriage. They talked about domestic partners and children of domestic partners (and even senior citizens to some extent) and how they'll lose health insurance (good!) and not be able to visit each other in the hospital (yeah right) and other things like that. But it ended up being effective, so what can you do?

I like these that all passed here (overwhelmingly):

Prop. 100 - No bail for illegal immigrants

Prop. 102 - Limits on lawsuit damages for illegal immigrants

Prop. 103 - English as state's official language

Prop. 300 - Limit education services for illegal immigrants


W00t! ;-D
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Postby Madison » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:56 pm

Nice post Cu. ;-D

I'm actually not arguing either side of the abortion issue, my concern is that kids are being operated on without parental consent, and that bothers me. Since you have to be 18 to vote, I'm amazed that this measure became law to begin with, and even more amazed that the measure to revoke it got defeated. Not only in one state, but both of them. Just makes absolutely no sense to me that adults would vote in favor of kids having elective surgery without parental consent :-? . I could understand if it's a life and death, we have to operate NOW! kind of thing, but that's not the case in the majority of those situations. Very strange result in the voting. :-?
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Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:54 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:I like these that all passed here (overwhelmingly):

Prop. 100 - No bail for illegal immigrants

Prop. 102 - Limits on lawsuit damages for illegal immigrants

Prop. 103 - English as state's official language

Prop. 300 - Limit education services for illegal immigrants


W00t! ;-D


I don't generally like comparing modern-day things to slavery, but I think it's worth noting here that slaves as well were unable to post bail, unable to bring a lawsuit or bear witness in court, not allowed to speak their native tongues, and unable to be schooled. It was against the law to teach a black person how to read in most slave states. Woot indeed.
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Postby Coppermine » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:59 pm

Madison wrote:Nice post Cu. ;-D

I'm actually not arguing either side of the abortion issue, my concern is that kids are being operated on without parental consent, and that bothers me. Since you have to be 18 to vote, I'm amazed that this measure became law to begin with, and even more amazed that the measure to revoke it got defeated. Not only in one state, but both of them. Just makes absolutely no sense to me that adults would vote in favor of kids having elective surgery without parental consent :-? . I could understand if it's a life and death, we have to operate NOW! kind of thing, but that's not the case in the majority of those situations. Very strange result in the voting. :-?


That's well put, and the surgery concern is certainly a valid one. I suppose it's more or less an elective procedure; not a required one. The argument that only pregnant teenagers of dysfunctional families wouldn't report an abortion to their parents is reasonable as well. I'm also concerned that a pregnant 16 year old too afraid to tell her parents she is pregnant may seek out a far more dangerous and illegal procedure to abort.

The mandatory 48 hour waiting period is a problem as well, perhaps more so than the parental consent part; time sometimes is of the essence and the 48 hours is there to perhaps give parents time to talk a pregnant teen out of getting abortion, when in fact is may complicate things further.

This measure is a very precarious situation and it's certainly a great example of something that has no black and white resolution. I think perhaps many adults, as they get older, have experiences, either personal or second hand, of pregnant teens and facing the possibility of abortion. I know people whose opinions have changed when actually confronted by the reality of it.
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Postby Coppermine » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:00 pm

If English is the "official language" what does that change exactly? I don't think you can jail someone for speaking spanish in Arizona now all of a sudden. Does it means bilingual signs must be taken down?

I just don't understand the point.
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