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Postby ironman » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:04 pm

bleach168 wrote:We'll see a black president long before a female president.


Vote Palmer '08!

:-D

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Postby Coppermine » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:06 pm

bleach168 wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:As far as Hillary is concerned, I really don't believe it matters where her stances (actual or perceived) even are. I don't believe that America is ready to elect a woman president, no matter what her credentials are. I don't know how long until we're at that point (I'll likely never be at that point and my wife has even said she'd never vote for a woman president as well), but I wouldn't bet on it being any time soon.


I like Hillary. But she's not going to win in 2008. Or 2012. Or 2016.

I know a ton of people who just flat out refuse to vote for a woman president. Our society has yet to evolve to that point. You never even see a female president in Hollywood movies.

We'll see a black president long before a female president.


I never take the "I know a ton of people" argument for face value. I mean, you probably know, demographically, a ton of republican people.

Now i'm not saying her presidential aspirations are a long shot. But I'm starting to question the validity of these "I'll never vote for a woman" claims... are they really still considered so inferior? I think it's a bit ignorant to be honest; Margaret Thatcher was a fine Prime Minister. Other, less free countries have had successful woman presidents.

I mean, I don't like the fact that "America isn't ready for a woman president" is a good excuse. It may be true, but I don't have to like it.

Remember, 30% of people polled said they'd definitely vote for Hillary in 2008. That's a lot more than "No one will ever vote for a woman."
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Postby BritSox » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:48 pm

ironman wrote:
RugbyD wrote:
I'd like to see an Edwards/Obama ticket.


It surprises me how many of you mention Edwards. I'd completely forgotten him.
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Postby RugbyD » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:03 pm

BritSox wrote:It surprises me how many of you mention Edwards. I'd completely forgotten him.

He's been off the national stage, but doing lots of grassroots work. I place the highest odds on him being the D nominee for 2008.
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Postby Phatferd » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:10 pm

BritSox wrote:
ironman wrote:
RugbyD wrote:
I'd like to see an Edwards/Obama ticket.


It surprises me how many of you mention Edwards. I'd completely forgotten him.


Edwards is the sole reason I voted for Kerry. Well that and I hate Bush.
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Postby HiddenIdentity » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:27 pm

ironman wrote:
bleach168 wrote:We'll see a black president long before a female president.


Vote Palmer '08!

:-D

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If he ran, he would probably win.
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Postby Coppermine » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:47 pm

ironman wrote:
bleach168 wrote:We'll see a black president long before a female president.


Vote Palmer '08!

:-D

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Palmer? More like Vote Pedro! (Serrano)

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Jobu for VP



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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:49 pm

Coppermine wrote:
I never take the "I know a ton of people" argument for face value. I mean, you probably know, demographically, a ton of republican people.

Now i'm not saying her presidential aspirations are a long shot. But I'm starting to question the validity of these "I'll never vote for a woman" claims... are they really still considered so inferior? I think it's a bit ignorant to be honest; Margaret Thatcher was a fine Prime Minister. Other, less free countries have had successful woman presidents.

I mean, I don't like the fact that "America isn't ready for a woman president" is a good excuse. It may be true, but I don't have to like it.

Remember, 30% of people polled said they'd definitely vote for Hillary in 2008. That's a lot more than "No one will ever vote for a woman."


i said it before, i guess you missed it, the surveys i have seen indicated 25-35% would on principle not vote for a women.

[this part is just my opinion]i think there is a not insignificant amount of people who will outwardly say they dont have a problem voting for a women but when they get in the booth wont do it. i think they want to see a what women would do as VP first.[/ end of my opinion]
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Postby acsguitar » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:57 pm

j_d_mcnugent wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
I never take the "I know a ton of people" argument for face value. I mean, you probably know, demographically, a ton of republican people.

Now i'm not saying her presidential aspirations are a long shot. But I'm starting to question the validity of these "I'll never vote for a woman" claims... are they really still considered so inferior? I think it's a bit ignorant to be honest; Margaret Thatcher was a fine Prime Minister. Other, less free countries have had successful woman presidents.

I mean, I don't like the fact that "America isn't ready for a woman president" is a good excuse. It may be true, but I don't have to like it.



Remember, 30% of people polled said they'd definitely vote for Hillary in 2008. That's a lot more than "No one will ever vote for a woman."


i said it before, i guess you missed it, the surveys i have seen indicated 25-35% would on principle not vote for a women.

[this part is just my opinion]i think there is a not insignificant amount of people who will outwardly say they dont have a problem voting for a women but when they get in the booth wont do it. i think they want to see a what women would do as VP first.[/ end of my opinion]


People who would not vote for a woman on principle probably shouldn't be allowed to vote in country with equal rights.
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Postby Coppermine » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:00 pm

j_d_mcnugent wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
I never take the "I know a ton of people" argument for face value. I mean, you probably know, demographically, a ton of republican people.

Now i'm not saying her presidential aspirations are a long shot. But I'm starting to question the validity of these "I'll never vote for a woman" claims... are they really still considered so inferior? I think it's a bit ignorant to be honest; Margaret Thatcher was a fine Prime Minister. Other, less free countries have had successful woman presidents.

I mean, I don't like the fact that "America isn't ready for a woman president" is a good excuse. It may be true, but I don't have to like it.

Remember, 30% of people polled said they'd definitely vote for Hillary in 2008. That's a lot more than "No one will ever vote for a woman."


i said it before, i guess you missed it, the surveys i have seen indicated 25-35% would on principle not vote for a women.

[this part is just my opinion]i think there is a not insignificant amount of people who will outwardly say they dont have a problem voting for a women but when they get in the booth wont do it. i think they want to see a what women would do as VP first.[/ end of my opinion]


Now that I can't argue about because it may very well be true; but I, personally, know a ton of people who would vote for a woman, so, it's a moot point. If 25-35% ( 8-o ) of all people wouldn't vote for a woman based on some principle, I'd say we've got problems.

Now you guys know me, I have to look up everything... so, I found a Fox News article contradicting this point... kind of.

Fox News wrote:More than six in 10 voters say they believe the United States is ready for a female president, a poll found.

The poll, conducted by the Siena College Research Institute and sponsored by Hearst Newspapers, also found that 81 percent of people surveyed would vote for a woman for president and 53 percent think New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton should try for the job.

Other polls have identified the former first lady as the voters' favorite for the Democratic presidential nomination.

On the Republican side, 42 percent of voters said Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice should run for the White House and 33 percent named North Carolina Sen. Elizabeth Dole.

The pollsters found about 60 percent of voters said they expect a woman to be the Democrats' nominee for president in 2008. In contrast, they found 18 percent expected the Republican ticket to be headed by a woman.


But, here's where things get interesting; the poll asks "Is America ready for a woman president." It does not ask whether or not you would vote for one.

CBS News/New York Times wrote:January 20-25, 2006
As has been the case for a number of years, nearly all Americans say they would vote for a woman for president from their own political party if she were qualified. And while a significantly smaller
majority thinks America is actually ready to elect a woman president,
that number is the highest ever in a CBS News Poll.
92% of adults now say they would vote for a woman for president from their party if she were qualified for the job. This support has
increased steadily over the past 50 years. In a Gallup poll conducted
in 1955, 52% said they would support a woman for president. That
number rose to 73% in 1975 and to 82% in 1987.

Significant majorities of all demographic groups say they would vote
for a qualified woman from their own party for president.
Today, 55% think America is ready for a woman president. This is up 7 points from December 1999 and the highest number since CBS News starting asking the question in 1996. Still, 38% say the country is not ready for a woman to lead the country.

Men are actually more likely than women to say the country is ready
for a woman to be president. 60% of men say so, compared to 51% of
women. In 1999, both groups were divided on the issue. Younger
Americans are also more likely to think America is ready for a woman
Commander-in-Chief. Seniors are actually split on the question: 46% do
not think the country is ready, while 44% say it is.
When it comes to politics, 61% of Democrats think the country is ready
for a woman president, compared to 48% of Republicans. Liberals are
also more likely than conservatives and moderates to believe America
is ready for a woman to be president.


http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/020306woman.pdf

I understand that's kind of a stacked poll; Would you vote for a woman for president from your own party if she were qualified; but with over 90% of people saying yes, I think it's a misconception that the majority of Americans would not vote for a woman.

Then again, it's more split on the "is america ready" question. Also interesting to note, Big Pimpin often says that even his wife wouldn't vote for a woman president. Well, it seems that's normal.

I'm just tossing out statistics though. The "is america ready" makes a good point, especially looking at the trend of more people answering yes every few years. 2008 may be a little too early; but maybe 2012 and almost certainly 2016, I think they would be.
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