Salary Cap In Baseball - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

Salary Cap In Baseball

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby j_d_mcnugent » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:51 pm

mak1277 wrote:
A floor's not going to do anything except guarantee that teams like Pittsburgh and KC spend a butt-load of money on crummy guys like Jeromy Burnitz. Making a team spend money isn't the same thing as making a team spend money well.


thats definitely true, but if you make it a flexible floor it might work a little better. the team doesnt necessarily have to spend it (revenue sharing money) on payroll and doesnt necessarily have to spend it the year following receipt. the main concept is preventing the owners from just pocketing the cash. they should be required to reinvest that money in the team in some capacity. basically, they should give teams some exemptions to the floor if they spend money more than X dollars a year on foreign scouting/academies or make stadium upgrades. you dont have to make the teams spend the money the year after they receive it. you can allow them to roll it over to future years. for example, the marlins could save up revenue sharing money for a new stadium or for when their young players get expensive.
back from the dead
j_d_mcnugent
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe Ranker
Posts: 3766
Joined: 1 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: bored at work

Postby AcidRock23 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:58 pm

Given the statistical bent of baseball, it seems like an ideal sport to use some sort of link to statistics to determine salaries, or perhaps compensation above 'replacement level'? A lot of players have performance incentives built into contracts which can help them but making the whole system work might create a new level of interest in the game.

Obviously that would likely benefit younger players and torpedo the sick contracts that some agents have been able to wheedle out of teams for 30 year olds who are on the way down. That might also create challenges ('Don't play Pujols today b/c if he hits 50 HR, it will cost us') but this could perhaps be accounted for somehow in a rules system. I guess that the big money teams out east would probably not go for that but it would be intriguing and also provide...an interesting way to rate fantasy players...hee hee...
AcidRock23
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle Eye
Posts: 4170
Joined: 8 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Champaign, IL

Postby gfantasy » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:26 pm

I assure you...

No one would bench someone for performing well.
gfantasy
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Web Supporter
Posts: 1447
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: NYC/Phila

Postby Lofunzo » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:16 pm

1337_Dude wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:I
1337_Dude wrote:I'd also prefer a floor actually.

Of course you would. What Yankee fan wouldn't? :-b

Haha yea. If there was a floor though, I wouldn't be against a cap.


As a Yankee fan, a floor would actually hurt as teams would be spending $$ on players that the Yankees could have signed. As a baseball fan, I would love to see a floor, though.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 18)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Postby mak1277 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:56 am

j_d_mcnugent wrote:
mak1277 wrote:
A floor's not going to do anything except guarantee that teams like Pittsburgh and KC spend a butt-load of money on crummy guys like Jeromy Burnitz. Making a team spend money isn't the same thing as making a team spend money well.


thats definitely true, but if you make it a flexible floor it might work a little better. the team doesnt necessarily have to spend it (revenue sharing money) on payroll and doesnt necessarily have to spend it the year following receipt. the main concept is preventing the owners from just pocketing the cash. they should be required to reinvest that money in the team in some capacity. basically, they should give teams some exemptions to the floor if they spend money more than X dollars a year on foreign scouting/academies or make stadium upgrades. you dont have to make the teams spend the money the year after they receive it. you can allow them to roll it over to future years. for example, the marlins could save up revenue sharing money for a new stadium or for when their young players get expensive.


I'm on board with this. The real issue is that there is absolutely no transparency in the financial records of the teams/owners. There is no way for anyone outside the organizations to really, truly know what the financial situation is without forcing the teams to open up the books. Even that is problematic, as there are plenty of legal "tricks" to show paper losses on the teams' financials. My personal favorite is when the teams have a separate legal entity for their stadium, and allocate all luxury box revenue to the "stadium entity" as opposed to the "team entity".

Obviously, the owners would never (SHOULD never) agree to opening the books, but without that step, there will never really be any way to analyze the situation in a proper manner.
mak1277
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy Expert
Posts: 4569
(Past Year: 5)
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Northern Virginia

Postby thedude » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:16 pm

j_d_mcnugent wrote:a hard cap does one thing and one thing only---line the owner's pockets.

a salary cap isnt going to lower ticket prices. ticket prices are set by market demand. the teams with the highest ticket prices are also the teams with the best attendance so the market clearly supports those prices. in addition, rampant ticket scalping in some areas means those teams could further increase ticket prices without ill effect. ticket prices arent tied to payroll, they are set to maximize profits.

i am not so sure a salary cap would directly lead to more competitive balance either. as we've seen, payroll has a low correlation to playoff success. there have been teams that spend a ton and go no where (like the mets of a few years ago) and teams that are at the lower/middle end of the payroll spectrum win the WS or make the playoffs. all the money in the world isnt going to help you win if you are just going to spend it on mo vaughn or carl pavano.

there are really more complex issues at play here. revenue sharing might need to be revamped a little bit. teams should be required to spend that money on the team in some capacity (scouting, stadium, payroll, whatever...as long as it doesnt end up in an owner's pocket). maybe the draft should be changed as well. baseball isnt like the other sports in that regard. if you have a top five pick in basketball or football you are almost always going to get a productive player. the odds are much less in baseball. it also takes several more years to see those players play in the major leagues. they should make foreign players go through the draft or award extra draft picks to the bottom teams. if you want more balance in the league i think a hard cap is the wrong way to go about it.


Correct, back in college i took a sports economics class and here's what they said about ticket prices and team salary.


Ticket prices are tied to marginal costs (the cost to the supplier of providing each additional unit of service).

Since contracts in baseball are garenteed, they are fixed costs.

No matter how many units the team provides (people they let in the stadium) they still have to pay the players salary. Therefore teams will set ticket prices where marginal cost meets marginal revenue. And salary is not taken into account in that equation.

This is pretty simple economics, but it is easier to understand if you have had at least an intro mirco course and if there are graphs.

Here is baseball prospect's attempt to explain it to lay people.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1345
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
thedude
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 8413
(Past Year: 90)
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Good Life

Postby JTWood » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:00 pm

blankman wrote:You can always rely on a Red Sox fan to whine about the Yankees and demand a salary cap. How hypocritical.

And you can always rely on a Yankees fan to point that out.

Take it to your team forums. :-t
Image
JTWood
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle EyeWeb Supporter
Posts: 11508
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Unincorporated Heaven

Postby Half Massed » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:04 pm

The problem with a salary cap is that all it will do is drive up player salaries even further. More competition for the good players creates higher salaries demands, which only the rich teams can really afford, and nothing changes except dollar amounts.

What teams really need are courses on efficient money use. You want to know why the A's consistently win? There's more than just Billy Beane making great moves and exploiting market weaknesses, it's efficient spending on all levels. For example, the A's spend nearly the least on farm system, front office, scouting and such and get better results than some of those who spend three times as much on the same thing.
Image
Half Massed
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 4084
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Busting ghosts

Postby gfantasy » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:43 pm

Half Massed wrote:The problem with a salary cap is that all it will do is drive up player salaries even further. More competition for the good players creates higher salaries demands, which only the rich teams can really afford, and nothing changes except dollar amounts.

What teams really need are courses on efficient money use. You want to know why the A's consistently win? There's more than just Billy Beane making great moves and exploiting market weaknesses, it's efficient spending on all levels. For example, the A's spend nearly the least on farm system, front office, scouting and such and get better results than some of those who spend three times as much on the same thing.


Good point Half Massed ;-D
gfantasy
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Web Supporter
Posts: 1447
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: NYC/Phila

Previous

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alesiger and 3 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Friday, Apr. 25
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at Baltimore
(7:05 pm)
Miami at NY Mets
(7:05 pm)
Boston at Toronto
(7:05 pm)
Cincinnati at Atlanta
(7:07 pm)
Oakland at Houston
(7:10 pm)
Detroit at Minnesota
(7:35 pm)
Pittsburgh at St. Louis
(8:10 pm)
Chi Cubs at Milwaukee
(8:10 pm)
Tampa Bay at Chi White Sox
(8:10 pm)
Arizona at Arizona
(8:10 pm)
Philadelphia at Philadelphia
(8:15 pm)
LA Dodgers at LA Dodgers
(9:40 pm)
Colorado at Colorado
(10:10 pm)
Texas at Seattle
(10:10 pm)
Cleveland at San Francisco
(10:15 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact