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Andrew McCutchen vs. Billy Butler vs. Cameron Maybin

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Best OF Prospect

Cameron Maybin
19
45%
Billy Butler
20
48%
Andrew McCutchen
1
2%
Other
2
5%
 
Total votes : 42

Postby Koby Schellenger » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:03 pm

shortsavage wrote:I didn't have a top 10 OF list at this time last year.

Pie is a little like Joel Guzman to me...touted for his tools and being able to stay afloat with older competition, but still yet to prove that his tools will make him the player he was once touted to be.


Ok, so it's completely stat/box score based?
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Postby shortsavage » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:53 pm

No, not completely box score based. I also try to read up on players as much as I can. I'm just begining to attempt to talk with players and scouts.

Do you go to games outside of the your area? Stalker or Juggs? How many minor league games do you get out to a year? Is FIC a side gig for you...I see you graduated a few years ago from Wisconsin?
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Postby Koby Schellenger » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:51 pm

shortsavage wrote:No, not completely box score based. I also try to read up on players as much as I can. I'm just begining to attempt to talk with players and scouts.

Do you go to games outside of the your area? Stalker or Juggs? How many minor league games do you get out to a year? Is FIC a side gig for you...I see you graduated a few years ago from Wisconsin?


You should really try to go see the guys. You can learn much more about them and their tools if you watch them and see them develop.


As for me, I go to games all over the place. I use a Stalker Pro. It's costly but very accurate. I see over 175 games a year. The exact number depends a lot on scheduling of games and whether I can see a day game, drive somewhere else, and see a nightcap. I write for FIC just for fun.
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Postby shortsavage » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:37 pm

Koby Schellenger wrote:
shortsavage wrote:No, not completely box score based. I also try to read up on players as much as I can. I'm just begining to attempt to talk with players and scouts.

Do you go to games outside of the your area? Stalker or Juggs? How many minor league games do you get out to a year? Is FIC a side gig for you...I see you graduated a few years ago from Wisconsin?


You should really try to go see the guys. You can learn much more about them and their tools if you watch them and see them develop.


Ha, that's kind of an unnecessary jab dude ;-).

I have my credentials lined up for the AFL. I'll be there next week.
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Postby Koby Schellenger » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm

shortsavage wrote:
Koby Schellenger wrote:
shortsavage wrote:No, not completely box score based. I also try to read up on players as much as I can. I'm just begining to attempt to talk with players and scouts.

Do you go to games outside of the your area? Stalker or Juggs? How many minor league games do you get out to a year? Is FIC a side gig for you...I see you graduated a few years ago from Wisconsin?


You should really try to go see the guys. You can learn much more about them and their tools if you watch them and see them develop.


Ha, that's kind of an unnecessary jab dude ;-).


It's not a jab at all. You offered your views on Felix Pie's tools without seeing him play. I was just trying to offer advice. It's pretty difficult to know how a guy plays defense or runs the bases or what pitches he can handle and which pitches he can't without seeing the player play.
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Postby shortsavage » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:04 pm

It's intuitive that seeing a guy play helps you learn more about him. You implied that you have seen a lot of players play and that I have not...a tilt to fuel your argument.

Anyways...would you rank Pie above any of the outfielders I listed (Snider, Rasmus, Jones, Pence, and Sweeney)?

And do you go to all of these games for fun or to scout or what? Seems like you'd have to be employed somewhere in the industry if you went to hundreds of games all over the place.
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Postby Koby Schellenger » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:40 pm

I still rank Pie in the top 10 OFs. He still possesses the same skills now that he did 12 months ago. If you want to look at just the statistics, they were down, but there's a reason. He started the year as a 21 year old in a league where the average age was nearly 24. He improved his walk rate and lowered his strikeout rate. If not for about 200 at bats in May and June he's have thrown up a great line of roughly .310/.360/.480. His BABIP was lower than his career average indicating he was either unlucky to an extent or the ball parks he played in were more unfriendly to hitters. It's probably some of both but PCL parks definitely have more foul territory than Southern and Florida State League parks so I'd give credence to that. He's improved his arm strength and played some RF early in the season. He's learning to react to the ball off the bat better and that began to show much more later in the season. He's improved his ability to bunt the ball both as a sacrifice and for a base hit.
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:08 pm

He still possesses the same skills now that he did 12 months ago.


when you are talking about a tools guy like pie, the question isnt whether he still has the skills but whether he has learned to do anything with them. in the past he was criticized for not having a good grasp on the strike zone, taking bad routes on fly balls, and not being a good baserunner. i havent seen him play a single game so i dont know if he has improved on those things or not. from what i read, it doesnt sound like he has made satisfactory progress. he is still young and he still has tools so he is still a good prospect. however, every year he doesnt put it all together he is going to drop a few pegs. sometimes it just happens. look at carlos beltran. sometimes it doesnt.
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Postby Cleveland Steamers » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:35 pm

Koby Schellenger wrote:I still rank Pie in the top 10 OFs. He still possesses the same skills now that he did 12 months ago. If you want to look at just the statistics, they were down, but there's a reason. He started the year as a 21 year old in a league where the average age was nearly 24. He improved his walk rate and lowered his strikeout rate. If not for about 200 at bats in May and June he's have thrown up a great line of roughly .310/.360/.480. His BABIP was lower than his career average indicating he was either unlucky to an extent or the ball parks he played in were more unfriendly to hitters. It's probably some of both but PCL parks definitely have more foul territory than Southern and Florida State League parks so I'd give credence to that. He's improved his arm strength and played some RF early in the season. He's learning to react to the ball off the bat better and that began to show much more later in the season. He's improved his ability to bunt the ball both as a sacrifice and for a base hit.


Great arguement. You hit my thoughts on the head. As a Cubs fan, I have followed Pie from the beginning. The guy will be getting a raw deal concerning upcoming prospect lists, I can almost assure that. While I may not have him in the top 5 (Butler, Maybin, Bruce, McCutcheon, C.Young, Tabata, Martinez, etc...), he is definitely in my top 10 OF prospects. As of now, he is bunched in a top 100 group that includes Pence, Sweeney, and Adam Jones. Currently, Pie leads that group of 4 because of age, tools, and his ability to adjust to Triple-A, but he leads by a slim margin.
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Postby rmande09 » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:30 am

I'd like to throw in a quick comment on the age-experience argument between McCutchen and Maybin. Though McCutchen DID have a half season of experience under his belt, this was still his first full season of professional baseball and he had to endure the long, difficult summer days of traveling and playing day-in and day-out, something completely different than his high school days just a year before. He also played his first full season at 19, as did Maybin (McCutchen turned 20 in October). Though McCutchen had some experience, he also started a level ahead of Maybin and finished two levels ahead of him. McCutchen's AA performance at just 19 in his first full season are what really got him into consideration for a top three OF prospect. The kid can really tear the cover off the ball and can really run as well. The fact that he will be starting his second full season at AA and Maybin will be starting his second full season at A+ DOES say something, regardless of whether McCutchen had 50 games under his belt after he was drafted.
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