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Why Do You Hate the Cardinals?

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Postby The Miner Part 2 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:23 pm

the article seems right on to me. with a team like the cards fluking thier way into the postseason only to get hot at the right time, it does make the regular season look unimportant. and like the writer was saying, in this era where statistics do a better job than ever at showing us who is the best and who isnt, to see an 83 win team take home the crown does leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

it all comes down to how exciting we want the postseason to be. i'll gladly take an 83 game winning team win a WS over a 2 team playoff system.

the thing is i dont think this has anything do with people hating the cards, it's more about people hating a fluke team winning the WS.
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Postby Tavish » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:41 pm

BritSox wrote:Only won 83 games

Which is largely due to the awful last two weeks of the season. They didn't come out of nowhere and sneak into the playoffs. This was a team that pretty much everyone expected to win their division.

All their best players banged up to varying degrees

Its baseball, everyone has players banged up to a varying degree. The Mets were missing their #1 and #2. The Yankees had Rivera on an inning limit, RJ with a bad back. The A's had Harden coming off injury, Crosby out, and Chavez's wrist.

A rookie and a guy who was cut loose by another team after being terrible starting series games.

Again, there are story lines like that with every team. The Tigers are starting a rookie, a former 19 game loser, and a 40+ year old who had gotten shelled in his other postseason apperances.

A rookie closer.
That is a good storyline, I loved watching Jenks last year deal with the pressure just like I love watching Wainright this year. He outpitched Izzy during the regular season so it doesn't really make the Cardinals bigger underdogs in my mind.

Beat two heavily-favored teams to get there.

The Padres weren't exactly heavy favorites to beat the Cards. It was a usually around a -$120 betting line. The Cardinals were actually a fairly heavy favorite to win Game 5. They were heavy underdogs against the Mets (usually in the -$210 area) but that isn't much different than what the Tigers faced against the Yankees.

Played 7 hard games in the LCS as opposed to their opponents sweeping and taking a week off.
A cast of 'little guys' like Yadi, Eckstein, Duncan coming up big for them.

That DOES look like a cinderella story to me. You can spin it how you want.

I'm not trying to spin it. I'm trying to figure out why the author of the story is expecting people to be riveted by a Cinderella team that has been a perennial contender for almost a decade. At the start of the postseason the only team that really "looked" to be a World Series team to me was the Yankees. Even they had some obvious weaknesses in the rotation and bullpen but there just so much offense I figured it would be able to carry them. The Mets offense isn't quite on the same level and they had even more question marks in the starting rotation. The Padres, A's, and Dodgers all had solid but not quite spectacular pitching but really shaky on offense. The Twins and Cardinals both looked to be teams that would have to win everytime their ace took the mound and squeeze a couple out from someone else. Its not like the Cardinals were some 83 win team going up against a bunch of 110 win juggernauts.

Since the Cafe always seem to hate my cross sport analogies I'll throw another one out. I would liken the Cardinals to a #4 seed in the NCAA tourney going out and winning the whole thing. Sure it wasn't quite what most people expected to happen and it ruins a bunch of people's brackets, but its not exactly some unthinkable dream.

Maybe my opinion of the Cardinals simply isn't as low as most people's, I'm not hating enough. I didn't expect them to win the whole thing, but I didn't see them as all that much worse than any of the other teams in the postseason.
Last edited by Tavish on Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bleach168 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:00 pm

BritSox wrote:
Tavish wrote:What does it take to be an inspiring underdog story?

3 consecutive NL Central Titles
5 of the last 7 Central Titles
NL Pennant two years ago
The reigning NL MVP
The reigning NL Cy Young winner
After 150 games only the two NY teams had bigger leads in their division.
4 of the first 5 hitters have played in multiple All-Star games.
More playoff experience than any postseason team other than the Yankees.


Not quite the circumstances I look for in a Cinderella team.


Only won 83 games
All their best players banged up to varying degrees
A rookie and a guy who was cut loose by another team after being terrible starting series games.
A rookie closer.
Beat two heavily-favored teams to get there.
Played 7 hard games in the LCS as opposed to their opponents sweeping and taking a week off.
A cast of 'little guys' like Yadi, Eckstein, Duncan coming up big for them.

That DOES look like a cinderella story to me. You can spin it how you want.


I personally thought everyone trying to make out that the heavy favorite Tigers were the cinderella story was even worse. The Cards were clearly the underdog of the two. Hence the poll with the Rams/Patriots. To even mention that one shows how few people had faith in STL before the series.


Underdogs =! Cinderella story

Yes, the Cards are underdogs but them having a bigger payroll than the Tigers doesn't inspire thoughts of cinderella.

I can see the Yankees as being underdogs someday, but a cinderella story? Never.
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Postby Coppermine » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:13 pm

I read this same great article last week on Slate.com and I was going to post it, but forgot.
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Postby JTWood » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:40 pm

Coppermine wrote:I read this same great article last week on Slate.com and I was going to post it, but forgot.

Congratulations.
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