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Bitter, party of one.

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Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:29 pm

JTWood wrote:I opened this thread expecting it to be targeted towards BitterDodgerFan, who said that the NLCS was "inferior" baseball and wasn't nearly as good to watch.


You mean this quote? :-)
BitterDodgerFan wrote:this series lost my interest...not as fun and exciting as the AL side and the quality of baseball is rather inferior, imo.
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Postby The Miner Part 2 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:32 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
JTWood wrote:I opened this thread expecting it to be targeted towards BitterDodgerFan, who said that the NLCS was "inferior" baseball and wasn't nearly as good to watch.


You mean this quote? :-)
BitterDodgerFan wrote:this series lost my interest...not as fun and exciting as the AL side and the quality of baseball is rather inferior, imo.


im not gonna say one leagues championship is more exciting than the other or one league is more exciting than the other, both leagues have different strategies which make them fun. but did you guys think this series was exciting? i thought besides game 7 the series was a snooze fest. actually i thought this entire postseason has been pretty boring.
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Re: Bitter, party of one.

Postby mak1277 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:44 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:I just shead a tear for Keith Law. :~(

words


Bitter? Maybe. But what part of what he wrote was untrue?
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Postby raiders_umpire » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:59 pm

acsguitar wrote:Hmm sounds familiar I believe i said that immediately after he threw it

The Mets had been challenging him with fastballs, perhaps knowing how weak he is, and he made one adjustment, just trying to make contact even if it usually meant going the other way, and a larger-than-expected number of his hits fell in. Thursday, Heilman decided to go to the changeup, a mistake given Molina's lack of bat speed and Heilman's velocity; pounding Molina hard in and going away with the changeup once ahead in the count is the best way to pitch to him. Still, if Heilman didn't hang the changeup, Molina probably would've missed the pitch entirely.




I always figured you to be a ESPN writer.
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Re: Bitter, party of one.

Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:00 pm

mak1277 wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:I just shead a tear for Keith Law. :~(

words


Bitter? Maybe. But what part of what he wrote was untrue?

I didn't say it was untrue. In fact I agree with most of it. Especially the part about needing to pinch hit for Valentin. I disagree that Flores was the pitching performance of the night. And I disagree with this line that pretty much sums up the article "The reality of the NLCS is that the league's best offense really didn't show up, and only some of the credit can go to the Cardinals' pitchers, many of whom were mediocre at best during the regular season." The whole article comes across as the Mets should have won but the blew it, the Cards got lucky. Yeah on paper it was a huge mismatch but that's why they play the games.

Here' another quote from the Sportsguy at Page2
• I'm taking a little heat from St. Louis Cardinals fans for not being gracious enough about their big win in last night's running diary. Look at it from my vantage point -- your team is currently five games over .500 in a CLEARLY inferior league and only managed one run combined against John Maine and Oliver Perez in the deciding two games of a playoff series. I know you're happy about making the World Series, but you can't honestly think you have a great team, right? I don't know a single person outside of Detroit or St. Louis who's excited about the 2006 World Series. So if you guys think you belong, then prove it -- let's see if your boys can win a couple games and give us a reason to give a crap. And if that happens, we'll all be happy to admit we were wrong. I don't know what else to tell you


I think the point at lot of people miss is that you don't have to be a great team all year. In fact you don't even have to be a great team in October. You just have to do enough to get it done. Didn't we learn that when the Angels and Marlins recently won? Hell, I didn't think the WhiteSox were the best team last year but they got it done when it counted and that is what the playoff are all about.
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Re: Bitter, party of one.

Postby mak1277 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:07 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
mak1277 wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:I just shead a tear for Keith Law. :~(

words


Bitter? Maybe. But what part of what he wrote was untrue?

I didn't say it was untrue. In fact I agree with most of it. Especially the part about needing to pinch hit for Valentin. I disagree that Flores was the pitching performance of the night. And I disagree with this line that pretty much sums up the article "The reality of the NLCS is that the league's best offense really didn't show up, and only some of the credit can go to the Cardinals' pitchers, many of whom were mediocre at best during the regular season." The whole article comes across as the Mets should have won but the blew it, the Cards got lucky. Yeah on paper it was a huge mismatch but that's why they play the games.

Here' another quote from the Sportsguy at Page2
• I'm taking a little heat from St. Louis Cardinals fans for not being gracious enough about their big win in last night's running diary. Look at it from my vantage point -- your team is currently five games over .500 in a CLEARLY inferior league and only managed one run combined against John Maine and Oliver Perez in the deciding two games of a playoff series. I know you're happy about making the World Series, but you can't honestly think you have a great team, right? I don't know a single person outside of Detroit or St. Louis who's excited about the 2006 World Series. So if you guys think you belong, then prove it -- let's see if your boys can win a couple games and give us a reason to give a crap. And if that happens, we'll all be happy to admit we were wrong. I don't know what else to tell you


I think the point at lot of people miss is that you don't have to be a great team all year. In fact you don't even have to be a great team in October. You just have to do enough to get it done. Didn't we learn that when the Angels and Marlins recently won? Hell, I didn't think the WhiteSox were the best team last year but they got it done when it counted and that is what the playoff are all about.


The Cards DID get lucky. Pedro and El Duque got hurt. End of story.

Now, I agree that injuries are part of the game. I also agree that luck is fun when it's on your side. I'm a huge Steelers fan. Last year they got some breaks, got hot at the right time and won it all, despite not being the best team. And I'm thrilled about it.

There's no shame in that, but Simmons is right (sort of)...nobody thinks the Cardinals are a great team, except (some) Cards fans.

The Mets, however, are also not a great team.
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Re: Bitter, party of one.

Postby JTWood » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:20 pm

mak1277 wrote:There's no shame in that, but Simmons is right (sort of)...nobody thinks the Cardinals are a great team, except (some) Cards fans.

I don't think this team is amazing by any stretch, but they've sure made the post-season a helluva lot more enjoyable than I expected them to make it - and I can't imagine that anyone in any city didn't think that this series was more enjoyable to watch than the Tigers/As series.

When it comes down to it, aren't we watching it for the excitement? I mean, I don't remember much about the Sox sweep of the Cards, but I sure as heck remember the D'Backs/Yanks series and the Yanks/BoSox series. Those were exciting series, regardless of the teams involved.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:31 pm

You know this is really the quote that I've got a problem with.
The reality of the NLCS is that the league's best offense really didn't show up, and only some of the credit can go to the Cardinals' pitchers, many of whom were mediocre at best during the regular season.


Code: Select all
           BA      OBP     SLG
Reyes     0.281   0.303   0.469
Lo Duca   0.207   0.258   0.241
Delgado   0.304   0.448   0.826
Wright    0.160   0.276   0.320
Beltran   0.296   0.387   0.667
Chavez    0.185   0.185   0.259
Valentin  0.250   0.333   0.333
Green     0.304   0.429   0.348


Maybe I'm missing something but what is so out of the ordinary here? Wright underperformed but he's still young and wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire in the 2nd half. Chavez should have done better but he's still not a great bat.
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Re: Bitter, party of one.

Postby Pogotheostrich » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:36 pm

mak1277 wrote:
The Cards DID get lucky. Pedro and El Duque got hurt. End of story.

Now, I agree that injuries are part of the game. I also agree that luck is fun when it's on your side. I'm a huge Steelers fan. Last year they got some breaks, got hot at the right time and won it all, despite not being the best team. And I'm thrilled about it.

There's no shame in that, but Simmons is right (sort of)...nobody thinks the Cardinals are a great team, except (some) Cards fans.

The Mets, however, are also not a great team.


Anyone that thinks the Cards have a great team this year is delusional. They have a good core and the role player came through. Injuries are part of the game and Cardinals have also had their fair share. I've posted it in another thread but it is worth repeatng.

Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote:Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect.
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Postby JTWood » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:34 pm

Wow... I really don't like this Kieth Law guy.

Two teams that decided to mail in absentee ballots for their post-Labor Day games meet in one of the least-anticipated World Series ever. You can make a reasonable argument that we're going to see the fourth-best team in the American League against the sixth- or seventh-best team in the National League, and we've got very few players involved with any kind of star power to draw in the casual fan. I think we're about to get a graphic depiction of how much worse the National League is than the American League.

When the Cardinals are up

• The book on pitching to these guys is so well-known it's practically in the public domain. Preston Wilson and Juan Encarnacion both showed they're looking fastball in any count and will chase hard stuff out of the strike zone when they're behind in the count (and sometimes when they're ahead too). Jim Edmonds will see a lot of breaking balls from the Tigers' left-handed starters. Scott Rolen will get pounded with hard stuff up. And Albert Pujols probably won't get much to hit at all, at least not in any situation where he can hurt the Tigers with a homer. (By the way, why aren't the media calling Pujols a non-clutch choker after his one-RBI performance in the NLCS? Why aren't people arguing that the Cardinals would be better off if they had traded him?)

• Yadier Molina's improbable NLCS performance should come to a halt, assuming the Tigers were paying any attention. Look for the Tigers to go hard in on him, preventing him from going the other way as he did through most of the series against the Mets.

• Look for plenty of action for Jamie Walker, as the Cardinals' primary pinch-hitting options are all left-handed (except for So Taguchi).

When the Tigers are up

• The Cardinals' starters all throw strikes, and the Tigers' hitters don't take a lot of pitches. I'm expecting a ton of balls in play when the Tigers are up, and given their speed and the sheer randomness of the process, that's going to mean a lot of men on base even without free passes.

• Besides Chris Carpenter, the Cardinals don't have a starter with a plus fastball. I expect the Tigers to put a few more balls in the seats, which has been a big part of their October success.

• On the flip side, several Cardinals pitchers (Carpenter, most of the relievers, Jeff Suppan with his changeup) have good secondary pitches and are willing to use them, which doesn't bode well for some of the Tigers' fastball-or-bust hitters, including Craig Monroe and Marcus Thames.

• Don't expect many stolen bases by either club; this series features two of the best-throwing everyday catchers in baseball.

Keys for the Cardinals

• The Cardinals have three starters who probably wouldn't last a month in an American League rotation. Getting similar stints out of them in the World Series as they got in the NLCS will be difficult, but it's going to be nearly impossible for St. Louis to win if they don't, because they're not strong enough to win slugfests against Detroit.

• St. Louis' relievers, particularly Josh Kinney, Randy Flores and Adam Wainwright, played critical roles in the NLCS, pitching extremely well in high-leverage situations. Since the Cards aren't likely to run away and hide in any of these games, getting more of the same from these three relievers is going to be a huge part of any Cardinals victory.

• Working the count. That's not something the Cardinals do well, but if you want to beat Justin Verlander or Jeremy Bonderman, you have to make them work, something neither the Yankees nor the A's did in their losses to those two starters. The Cardinals' lineup is not built for that approach, and it's hard to see them doing it effectively enough to win those games.

Keys for the Tigers

• Get to them early. The Cardinals' starters have all had their struggles in the first inning, particularly Carpenter. Scoring a few first-inning runs and running up the starter's pitch count is always a good strategy, but it's particularly important against Carpenter, Suppan and Jeff Weaver, all of whom have shown they can settle into a groove if given the opportunity.

• Six good innings. If the Tigers can continue to get quality starts out of each of their four starters and then hand leads over to Joel Zumaya and Fernando Rodney in the seventh, they'll win the series. Although that's not a realistic goal in most cases, the Tigers are about to face the weakest offense of the three they've faced this month, so if they could do it against Oakland and the Yankees, they should be able to do it against St. Louis.

• Don't get cute. The talent mismatch in this series is substantial. The Tigers need to avoid the temptation to try to play small ball or mess around with their lineup. What has worked for them all month should continue to work for them in the next 10 days.

Prediction

The one sure thing for this series is that the ratings will be terrible. The 11th- and 21st-largest media markets, only one or two really recognizable stars, and a widely held belief that at least one of these teams isn't World Series-worthy are adding up to a major pre-Series buzz kill. They'll play the games whether or not anyone's watching, though, and I don't see how this Cardinals team could hang on against the superior pitching and offense of any American League representative, least of all one with the pitching depth of the Tigers. The expected return of Zumaya makes it a little more of a mismatch, although I still think they would win this series without him. Tigers in five.

It seems to me that if he's so concerned about the ratings for this series, he - as part of the media - should try to do something about it. I mean, we all know that the Cardinals were not supposed to get this far. We also know that they are heavy, heavy underdogs in this series. Even I wouldn't pick them without really good odds. So, if this is such a David vs. Goliath matchup, why not focus on that?

Instead of trying to sell us on the interest of this series, this buttmunch wants to tell us repeatedly that the Cardinals suck, Yadier Molina sucks, their offense sucks, and their pitching sucks. Oh, and they don't hold a candle to any American League team, even a piss-poor team like the Tigers that backed into the playoffs.

What a female hygenic product... :-t
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