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Is this deal vetoable?

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Is this deal vetoable?

Postby PlayingWithFire » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:14 am

I really thought one side gave up a lot of youth for basically Ortiz and a no name prospect(the draft pick will probably be some no name 2006 3rd round draftee). But the league is trying to veto it. What do you guys think?

A's send
Justin Duchscherer $329,500 (2009)
Edinson Volquez $300,000
Andre Ethier $300,000(2011)
Ryan Church $316,000(2010)
Eric Duncan(prospect)

Phillies send
David Ortiz $5,250,000 (2007)
David Bell $4,700,000(2007)
Jose Cruz Jr $4,500,000 (2007)
Matt Maloney(prospect)-LHP
Dispersal draft pick in 2007

Bell and Cruz are salary dumps I assume.

To provide more info. The league is 6x6 H2H(OBP and HOLDS add the normal 5x5) And we have a franchise rule that could be used to lock Ortiz cheap for 3 more years after 2007, but he can't be traded or released during that period. Background info on the 2 teams. Oakland was 5th out of 14 in the AL last year and barely lost to the eventual champion Marlins in the playoffs(tied in WHIP that week, a win for Oakland would lead to tie-breaker ERA, which Oakland won). Phillies was left in bad shape by the previous owner and has a lot of holes to fill. I'd think not being able to trade Ortiz would hurt the team long term. One player doesn't make a team no matter how good he is.
Last edited by PlayingWithFire on Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby UFB Commish » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:11 am

A lot depends on the salary structure of the league. Ortiz at $14.5 million (which is basically his salary if you add the two dumps in) seems reasonable. Duchscherer is a good middle RP with closing capabilities. Ethier is a very good prospect and Church and Duncan are servicable. Bell and Cruz are worthless in almost any format.

This trade seems OK. If Bell and Cruz have to be kept at the salaries beyond 2007 it is a better deal for the youth side. It doesn't seem unreasonable either way. You must add in the $13 million and change the other side will get in cap room as part of the equation. With that amount they should be able to land more talent to even up the deal player wise. Somewhat it depends on free agent availibility and league rules (for example, in an OPS leage Ortiz value increases and if he doesn't qualify at 1B in your league his value decreases a bit).

Teams that are rebuilding must be able to make these kinds of deals in keeper leagues. It's the only way they get better. It would be nice if teams could be competitive every year, but if you are burdened with bad salaries, injuries, etc. you should have the option of a two or three year plan to get back to competitiveness.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:44 am

To provide more info. The league is 6x6 H2H(OBP and HOLDS add the normal 5x5) And we have a franchise rule that could be used to lock Ortiz cheap for 3 more years after 2007, but he can't be traded or released during that period. Background info on the 2 teams. Oakland was 5th out of 14 in the AL last year and barely lost to the eventual champion Marlins in the playoffs(tied in WHIP that week, a win for Oakland would lead to tie-breaker ERA, which Oakland won). Phillies was left in bad shape by the previous owner and has a lot of holes to fill. I'd think not being able to trade Ortiz would hurt the team long term. One player doesn't make a team no matter how good he is.

does that change anything?
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Postby bigken117 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:45 pm

It looks like the Phillies are trying to clear out cap space, so they traded Ortiz and 9.2 mil for some young, cheap somewhat decent players and freed up $14 mil in the process. Without knowing how the rest of the salary system works, I'd still rather have Ortiz if I'm playing for 2007. Ethier is the only player given up who could provide better than average in 07.

So......why is the league trying to veto it?
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:22 pm

bigken117 wrote:It looks like the Phillies are trying to clear out cap space, so they traded Ortiz and 9.2 mil for some young, cheap somewhat decent players and freed up $14 mil in the process. Without knowing how the rest of the salary system works, I'd still rather have Ortiz if I'm playing for 2007. Ethier is the only player given up who could provide better than average in 07.

So......why is the league trying to veto it?


because they think one team is ripping the other off
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Postby bigken117 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:04 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:
bigken117 wrote:It looks like the Phillies are trying to clear out cap space, so they traded Ortiz and 9.2 mil for some young, cheap somewhat decent players and freed up $14 mil in the process. Without knowing how the rest of the salary system works, I'd still rather have Ortiz if I'm playing for 2007. Ethier is the only player given up who could provide better than average in 07.

So......why is the league trying to veto it?


because they think one team is ripping the other off


But which team? You make it sound like the team acquiring Ortiz and taking on all the salary is being hosed, when it's quite the opposite, even though the team taking Ortiz is also taking on $10 mil in dead weight. I don't know what % of your cap it is, but I assume it's enough to hinder this team in 2007. I'd take the Ortiz side 10 out of 10 times.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:34 am

bigken117 wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
bigken117 wrote:It looks like the Phillies are trying to clear out cap space, so they traded Ortiz and 9.2 mil for some young, cheap somewhat decent players and freed up $14 mil in the process. Without knowing how the rest of the salary system works, I'd still rather have Ortiz if I'm playing for 2007. Ethier is the only player given up who could provide better than average in 07.

So......why is the league trying to veto it?


because they think one team is ripping the other off


But which team? You make it sound like the team acquiring Ortiz and taking on all the salary is being hosed, when it's quite the opposite, even though the team taking Ortiz is also taking on $10 mil in dead weight. I don't know what % of your cap it is, but I assume it's enough to hinder this team in 2007. I'd take the Ortiz side 10 out of 10 times.


no, quite the opposite, the league thinks the one giving up Ortiz is getting a raw deal and it's vetoable
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Postby bigken117 » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:55 pm

So people are vetoing on the grounds the Phillies didn't receive enough compensation for Ortiz?

Can Philly use that cap space cleared out with Bell and Cruz this offseason?
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:39 am

bigken117 wrote:So people are vetoing on the grounds the Phillies didn't receive enough compensation for Ortiz?

Can Philly use that cap space cleared out with Bell and Cruz this offseason?


from the FA market last year, 8 millions can land you a player like Morris, Jacques Jones, Preston Wilson, Ryan Dempster. And guys like Juan Encarnacion and Kenny Rogers are 2-3 millions cheaper.
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Postby bigmex » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:30 am

im not sure how the salary system and contracts work out, but what is to stop the team getting ortiz from just dropping bell and the other dead money guy. then he only takes on ortiz and gives up nothing much for him. even without being able to simply drop those players id say the team getting ortiz is dominating this deal. its not like ortiz is going to retire in one year. ortiz will still be a smasher for many years. so i think the deal is trading one absolute stud in his prime for 1 great prospect (either) and a bunch of spare parts. as good as duch is, middle relief guys that can get holds are easy to come by in fantasy.
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