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Zumaya a Closer?

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Postby Havok1517 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:00 pm

The Jury wrote:
Geek wrote:We'll see if he has the mentality for it. Brad Lidge didn't.


Zumaya is nails, man.. I can't see him faltering as a closer.


What a dumb comment. Lidge has been the closer of the Astros for 3 years and already has 102 saves. He has a rough year in 2006 but he still had 32 saves. Lidge does have a closers mentality. Hilarious.
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Postby Yoda » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:13 pm

Havok1517 wrote:
The Jury wrote:
Geek wrote:We'll see if he has the mentality for it. Brad Lidge didn't.


Zumaya is nails, man.. I can't see him faltering as a closer.


What a dumb comment. Lidge has been the closer of the Astros for 3 years and already has 102 saves. He has a rough year in 2006 but he still had 32 saves. Lidge does have a closers mentality. Hilarious.


I think the main point is that Lidge has been overrated as a closer. 102 SV with 19 BLSV... 82% conversion rate is pretty bad for a regular closer. This season alone, among guys who had 33 SVO or more (20 closers), he ranked 14th...
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:29 pm

Yoda wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
The Jury wrote:
Geek wrote:We'll see if he has the mentality for it. Brad Lidge didn't.


Zumaya is nails, man.. I can't see him faltering as a closer.


What a dumb comment. Lidge has been the closer of the Astros for 3 years and already has 102 saves. He has a rough year in 2006 but he still had 32 saves. Lidge does have a closers mentality. Hilarious.


I think the main point is that Lidge has been overrated as a closer. 102 SV with 19 BLSV... 82% conversion rate is pretty bad for a regular closer. This season alone, among guys who had 33 SVO or more (20 closers), he ranked 14th...

I think Lidge's problem was that he fell in love with the slider and now everyone has a beat on it. He can't throw the slider for a strike consistantly and the only other pitch he has is a fastball so hitters just sit fastball and crush it.
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Postby Yoda » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:33 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
The Jury wrote:
Geek wrote:We'll see if he has the mentality for it. Brad Lidge didn't.


Zumaya is nails, man.. I can't see him faltering as a closer.


What a dumb comment. Lidge has been the closer of the Astros for 3 years and already has 102 saves. He has a rough year in 2006 but he still had 32 saves. Lidge does have a closers mentality. Hilarious.


I think the main point is that Lidge has been overrated as a closer. 102 SV with 19 BLSV... 82% conversion rate is pretty bad for a regular closer. This season alone, among guys who had 33 SVO or more (20 closers), he ranked 14th...

I think Lidge's problem was that he fell in love with the slider and now everyone has a beat on it. He can't throw the slider for a strike consistantly and the only other pitch he has is a fastball so hitters just sit fastball and crush it.


He was hardly locating his fastball this season also. People think Lidge is a great closer but even if you don't count 06, his conversion rate is far below the average for elite closers.
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Postby savvy_stu » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:36 pm

Havok1517 wrote:
The Jury wrote:
Geek wrote:We'll see if he has the mentality for it. Brad Lidge didn't.


Zumaya is nails, man.. I can't see him faltering as a closer.


What a dumb comment. Lidge has been the closer of the Astros for 3 years and already has 102 saves. He has a rough year in 2006 but he still had 32 saves. Lidge does have a closers mentality. Hilarious.


But Havok, 75% of those saves came before his first major hiccup in the 2005 NLCS. Pujols broke Lidge. Closing seems to require an other-worldly sense of self-confidence. Lidge was lights out until he was beat. Ever since that day, it's as though he's afraid of any strike he throws getting knocked out of the park. There is no room in the Major League Closer's mind for fear. There is only room for confidence, loads and loads of confidence.

I think the Tigers would be wise to continue to allow Zumaya to set up Jones next year. Zumy needs to prove that he can put bad outings behind him in a less-pressurized situation so that he isn't mentally broken before his potential is ever fully realized.
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Postby Yoda » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:43 pm

savvy_stu wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
The Jury wrote:
Geek wrote:We'll see if he has the mentality for it. Brad Lidge didn't.


Zumaya is nails, man.. I can't see him faltering as a closer.


What a dumb comment. Lidge has been the closer of the Astros for 3 years and already has 102 saves. He has a rough year in 2006 but he still had 32 saves. Lidge does have a closers mentality. Hilarious.


But Havok, 75% of those saves came before his first major hiccup in the 2005 NLCS. Pujols broke Lidge. Closing seems to require an other-worldly sense of self-confidence. Lidge was lights out until he was beat. Ever since that day, it's as though he's afraid of any strike he throws getting knocked out of the park. There is no room in the Major League Closer's mind for fear. There is only room for confidence, loads and loads of confidence.

I think the Tigers would be wise to continue to allow Zumaya to set up Jones next year. Zumy needs to prove that he can put bad outings behind him in a less-pressurized situation so that he isn't mentally broken before his potential is ever fully realized.


I agree with the closer mental thing to a degree but... Even prior to 2005 LCS, his conversion rate was average at best. Forget about Ks, ERA, WHIP or any other stat. The only thing that matters for closers is SV, SV%
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:01 pm

Yoda wrote:I think the main point is that Lidge has been overrated as a closer. 102 SV with 19 BLSV... 82% conversion rate is pretty bad for a regular closer. This season alone, among guys who had 33 SVO or more (20 closers), he ranked 14th...


I wouldn't count his 1 save and 5 BLSV in 2003 since he wasn't the closer. That puts his save% at 86.4% which isn't too bad considering the best in the business are about 90%.
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Postby Havok1517 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:01 pm

Yoda wrote:
savvy_stu wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
The Jury wrote:
Geek wrote:We'll see if he has the mentality for it. Brad Lidge didn't.


Zumaya is nails, man.. I can't see him faltering as a closer.


What a dumb comment. Lidge has been the closer of the Astros for 3 years and already has 102 saves. He has a rough year in 2006 but he still had 32 saves. Lidge does have a closers mentality. Hilarious.


But Havok, 75% of those saves came before his first major hiccup in the 2005 NLCS. Pujols broke Lidge. Closing seems to require an other-worldly sense of self-confidence. Lidge was lights out until he was beat. Ever since that day, it's as though he's afraid of any strike he throws getting knocked out of the park. There is no room in the Major League Closer's mind for fear. There is only room for confidence, loads and loads of confidence.

I think the Tigers would be wise to continue to allow Zumaya to set up Jones next year. Zumy needs to prove that he can put bad outings behind him in a less-pressurized situation so that he isn't mentally broken before his potential is ever fully realized.


I agree with the closer mental thing to a degree but... Even prior to 2005 LCS, his conversion rate was average at best. Forget about Ks, ERA, WHIP or any other stat. The only thing that matters for closers is SV, SV%


I still think he has the potential to be a top 5 MLB closer in 2007. Prior to this year he was top 3 on many projections. I refuse to think that a batter can break a pitcher with stuff as good as Lidge has. Lidge should just bean Pujols as hard as he can next time they face and get his dominance back if thats the case. Buy low guy here. He still had 32 saves last year with decent numbers despite his troubles.
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Postby savvy_stu » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:02 pm

Yoda wrote:I agree with the closer mental thing to a degree but... Even prior to 2005 LCS, his conversion rate was average at best. Forget about Ks, ERA, WHIP or any other stat. The only thing that matters for closers is SV, SV%


Actually, I think there is a significant difference between entering a game up by 1 with runners on, and entering a game with a 3 run lead. Saves and SV % do not always tell the whole story. I'm not going to get into hypotheticals because I think that the difference in pressure between a 1 run game and a 3 run game is obvious, but I will say that saves and SV% are misleading stats and are less important than whether or not a closer has the afore mentioned "closer's mentality" to go with actual talent.
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Postby Yoda » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:43 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
Yoda wrote:I think the main point is that Lidge has been overrated as a closer. 102 SV with 19 BLSV... 82% conversion rate is pretty bad for a regular closer. This season alone, among guys who had 33 SVO or more (20 closers), he ranked 14th...


I wouldn't count his 1 save and 5 BLSV in 2003 since he wasn't the closer. That puts his save% at 86.4% which isn't too bad considering the best in the business are about 90%.


OK so he is an average closer. Far from elite.
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