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Steve Lyons fired by FOX

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Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:53 am

Dawgpound 1613 wrote:My main objection to this is that it just continues the double standard. If Dusty Baker or Ozzie Guillen had said this, nothing would have been done despite having made previous statements in the past that were "worse" (i.e. having a history as well).


If Baker or Guillen said some of the stuff they have said while working as part of a broadcast team and during the broadcast of a game, you can bet they'd be fired for it. Similarly, if Lyons said we he said as a coach or player, people would have talked about it for a little while then nothing would have happened. The double standard has nothing to do with what was said, but by whom it was said, and the capicity in which he said it.
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Postby acsguitar » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:38 am

Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
My main objection to this is that it just continues the double standard. If Dusty Baker or Ozzie Guillen had said this, nothing would have been done despite having made previous statements in the past that were "worse" (i.e. having a history as well).

.


Ok I agree there are major double standards out there but this isn't a fair comparrison.

Ozzie and Dusty's jobs are Managers. They aren't TV Broadcasters. They aren't paid by the networks. The can be total idiots and people still will watch the cubs and sox. The cubs and sox will still make money.

Lyons represents an investment for advertisers. If that investment is going downhill because of Lyons then Lyons needs to go or the advertisers will put there adds somewhere else.

Fox let him go because of money. Before it got out of hand. They were just being proactive before lyons said something completely out of hand.

You keep letting him go off and one day he's gonna say something that really pisses people off and fox is gonna get burned financially as well as in reputation
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:06 pm

I feel bad for Lyons. He really didn't deserve to lose his job, IMO, for this comment...However, that being said, FOX had to fire him...

Lyons' style of announcing, unfortunately, makes him a liability to FOX. While most people find him funny, albeit stupid, this really doesn't matter. People watch baseball on FOX because it's the only station where they can get that particluar game, and usually it's the only game on (excluding a few local networks on Saturdays). People dont care who is announcing. However, if Lyons says something stupid, then people might decide NOT to watch games that Lyons announces because they don't like him....(I'm thinking in terms of a boycott or something)....

Basically, announcers are necessary evils, needed only to entertain people between pitches of the game so they will watch the commercials. Plus, a very small percentage of fans, especially casual fans (which are the fans TV cares about, remember, us diehards are going to watch no matter who's announcing...) actually care or analyze what the announcers say.

Sadly, the PC police today are controlled by money... Pissing people off=less money=less sales=bad for TV company. Therefore, we're going to keep having crap like Joe Buck and Tim McCarver, not because they are good, but because casual fans will watch them....
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Postby acsguitar » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:26 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:I feel bad for Lyons. He really didn't deserve to lose his job, IMO, for this comment...However, that being said, FOX had to fire him...

Lyons' style of announcing, unfortunately, makes him a liability to FOX. While most people find him funny, albeit stupid, this really doesn't matter. People watch baseball on FOX because it's the only station where they can get that particluar game, and usually it's the only game on (excluding a few local networks on Saturdays). People dont care who is announcing. However, if Lyons says something stupid, then people might decide NOT to watch games that Lyons announces because they don't like him....(I'm thinking in terms of a boycott or something)....

Basically, announcers are necessary evils, needed only to entertain people between pitches of the game so they will watch the commercials. Plus, a very small percentage of fans, especially casual fans (which are the fans TV cares about, remember, us diehards are going to watch no matter who's announcing...) actually care or analyze what the announcers say.

Sadly, the PC police today are controlled by money... Pissing people off=less money=less sales=bad for TV company. Therefore, we're going to keep having crap like Joe Buck and Tim McCarver, not because they are good, but because casual fans will watch them....


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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:25 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:My main objection to this is that it just continues the double standard. If Dusty Baker or Ozzie Guillen had said this, nothing would have been done despite having made previous statements in the past that were "worse" (i.e. having a history as well).


If Baker or Guillen said some of the stuff they have said while working as part of a broadcast team and during the broadcast of a game, you can bet they'd be fired for it. Similarly, if Lyons said we he said as a coach or player, people would have talked about it for a little while then nothing would have happened. The double standard has nothing to do with what was said, but by whom it was said, and the capicity in which he said it.


There is no example of any minority who has lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (See, e.g. Bryant Gumbel, Charles Barkley, Dusty Baker)

There are numerous examples of whites who have lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (see, e.g., Al Campanis, Bill Singer, Rush Limbaugh, Jimmy the Greek, Ben Wright)

So please forgive me if I do not agree with your opinion that had Baker or Guillen made these statements, they would have been fired. There is simply no evidence to support that opinion.
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Postby Coppermine » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:29 pm

Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:My main objection to this is that it just continues the double standard. If Dusty Baker or Ozzie Guillen had said this, nothing would have been done despite having made previous statements in the past that were "worse" (i.e. having a history as well).


If Baker or Guillen said some of the stuff they have said while working as part of a broadcast team and during the broadcast of a game, you can bet they'd be fired for it. Similarly, if Lyons said we he said as a coach or player, people would have talked about it for a little while then nothing would have happened. The double standard has nothing to do with what was said, but by whom it was said, and the capicity in which he said it.


There is no example of any minority who has lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (See, e.g. Bryant Gumbel, Charles Barkley, Dusty Baker)

There are numerous examples of whites who have lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (see, e.g., Al Campanis, Bill Singer, Rush Limbaugh, Jimmy the Greek, Ben Wright)

So please forgive me if I do not agree with your opinion that had Baker or Guillen made these statements, they would have been fired. There is simply no evidence to support that opinion.


You obviously don't understand network television.
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:37 pm

Coppermine wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:My main objection to this is that it just continues the double standard. If Dusty Baker or Ozzie Guillen had said this, nothing would have been done despite having made previous statements in the past that were "worse" (i.e. having a history as well).


If Baker or Guillen said some of the stuff they have said while working as part of a broadcast team and during the broadcast of a game, you can bet they'd be fired for it. Similarly, if Lyons said we he said as a coach or player, people would have talked about it for a little while then nothing would have happened. The double standard has nothing to do with what was said, but by whom it was said, and the capicity in which he said it.


There is no example of any minority who has lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (See, e.g. Bryant Gumbel, Charles Barkley, Dusty Baker)

There are numerous examples of whites who have lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (see, e.g., Al Campanis, Bill Singer, Rush Limbaugh, Jimmy the Greek, Ben Wright)

So please forgive me if I do not agree with your opinion that had Baker or Guillen made these statements, they would have been fired. There is simply no evidence to support that opinion.


You obviously don't understand network television.


You obviously don't understand "double standard".

I understand network TV just fine and they are going to do anything to avoid controversy involving the possibility of insulting a minority. They also do not do anything to avoid controversy involving the possibility of insulting someone who is white. Hence - "double standard".
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Postby Coppermine » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:40 pm

Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:My main objection to this is that it just continues the double standard. If Dusty Baker or Ozzie Guillen had said this, nothing would have been done despite having made previous statements in the past that were "worse" (i.e. having a history as well).


If Baker or Guillen said some of the stuff they have said while working as part of a broadcast team and during the broadcast of a game, you can bet they'd be fired for it. Similarly, if Lyons said we he said as a coach or player, people would have talked about it for a little while then nothing would have happened. The double standard has nothing to do with what was said, but by whom it was said, and the capicity in which he said it.


There is no example of any minority who has lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (See, e.g. Bryant Gumbel, Charles Barkley, Dusty Baker)

There are numerous examples of whites who have lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (see, e.g., Al Campanis, Bill Singer, Rush Limbaugh, Jimmy the Greek, Ben Wright)

So please forgive me if I do not agree with your opinion that had Baker or Guillen made these statements, they would have been fired. There is simply no evidence to support that opinion.


You obviously don't understand network television.


You obviously don't understand "double standard".

I understand network TV just fine and they are going to do anything to avoid controversy involving the possibility of insulting a minority. They also do not do anything to avoid controversy involving the possibility of insulting someone who is white. Hence - "double standard".


No, I understand double standard and I agree with you... it's not right, but that's how it is. Get upset about it if you must.
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Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:47 pm

Coppermine wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Dawgpound 1613 wrote:My main objection to this is that it just continues the double standard. If Dusty Baker or Ozzie Guillen had said this, nothing would have been done despite having made previous statements in the past that were "worse" (i.e. having a history as well).


If Baker or Guillen said some of the stuff they have said while working as part of a broadcast team and during the broadcast of a game, you can bet they'd be fired for it. Similarly, if Lyons said we he said as a coach or player, people would have talked about it for a little while then nothing would have happened. The double standard has nothing to do with what was said, but by whom it was said, and the capicity in which he said it.


There is no example of any minority who has lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (See, e.g. Bryant Gumbel, Charles Barkley, Dusty Baker)

There are numerous examples of whites who have lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (see, e.g., Al Campanis, Bill Singer, Rush Limbaugh, Jimmy the Greek, Ben Wright)

So please forgive me if I do not agree with your opinion that had Baker or Guillen made these statements, they would have been fired. There is simply no evidence to support that opinion.


You obviously don't understand network television.


You obviously don't understand "double standard".

I understand network TV just fine and they are going to do anything to avoid controversy involving the possibility of insulting a minority. They also do not do anything to avoid controversy involving the possibility of insulting someone who is white. Hence - "double standard".


No, I understand double standard and I agree with you... it's not right, but that's how it is. Get upset about it if you must.


Not upset, per se. Just pointing out to the other poster that his opinion that double standards did not exist was not supported by the facts (i.e. that Baker or Guillen would not have been fired had they been in Lyon's position).

Double standards exists in all walks of life besides network TV and sports. I don't agree with it and hope one day it will end, but agree that this is how it is.
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:33 am

Dawgpound 1613 wrote:There is no example of any minority who has lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (See, e.g. Bryant Gumbel, Charles Barkley, Dusty Baker)

There are numerous examples of whites who have lost their job, regardless of capacity, for making racially insensitive comments. (see, e.g., Al Campanis, Bill Singer, Rush Limbaugh, Jimmy the Greek, Ben Wright)

So please forgive me if I do not agree with your opinion that had Baker or Guillen made these statements, they would have been fired. There is simply no evidence to support that opinion.


Just off the top of my head...
Reggie White
DJ Star (probably not familiar to people here, but a well-known hip-hop DJ in NYC and other East Coast markets who got canned for calling Indians "rat eaters", I think)
The whole Hot 97 Tsunami song incident involved several minority group members.

And white guys get away with insensitive stuff all the time...remember Paterno's remarks before the bowl game last year? If he's some expendable no-name, you think he doesn't get canned?

And that's the key. The double standard exists, but has little to do with race. It has to do with power and leverage. Guillen, Paterno, and Gumbel have power, so they get the benefit of the doubt. Lyons, Campanis, and DJ Star don't.
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