Why I hate baseball...A rant - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Why I hate baseball...A rant

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby J35J » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:40 am

Tavish wrote:
Netsfan5 wrote:So we can agree baseball is a more complicating game on the surface, but when digging further, basketball has tons of things within the game the casual fan wouldn't know same with football.

Baseball seems to be described as beautiful, glorious, intelligent. Why?


Let me ask you a simple baseball strategy question.

There is a runner on 1st. What should be taken into consideration when you decide if the runner should try and steal second?



I like it..... it is a long list and there will surely be some things left out in most responses to this.


Jason
J35J
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 10467
(Past Year: 361)
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:31 pm

Tavish wrote:Funny, I love baseball for almost the exact reasons you dislike it. I love the pace, I love that the game unfolds in its own time. Every other sport tries to force the drama of a game on you with a clock. Baseball plays outside of the normal hustle and bustle of everyday life. I deal with a timeclock every day at work. Get this and that done before 4PM, take your break at noon. Baseball simply says here is what has to be done. Sit back, relax, enjoy a beer, enjoy the day, we'll get there when we get there.

The batter/pitcher matchup can be one of the most intriguing and intense sporting event. The hitter guessing what the pitcher is going to do, the pitcher trying to fool the hitter. Great fastball hitters against power pitchers, crafty veterans against young studs. Clemens buzzing Piazza, Pujols glaring out at Lidge, anyone trying to squeeze a pitch into Bonds' strikezone without him putting it into the Cove. And while all that is going on you have the cat and mouse game of Pierre on first trying to find out exactly how far he can push his lead, the infielders moving back and forth from their stances, players in the batters box watching everything the pitcher does trying to gain an advantage. And thats all before the crack of the bat on contact when the field becomes alive with organized chaos. Runners scrambling around the bases, infielders diving for balls just out of their reach then quickly moving to cover their base or cutoff the throw, the catcher tossing the mask and moving up to block the plate, outfielders preparing to throw a rocket to home. The dust settles, everyone gets ready to do it all again.


I agree with this too. ;-D I think the primary reason why people who don't appreciate baseball to some extent feel that way is just because the game is full of deep intricacies where it demands you to know more intimately certain details of the game. In a sense, this is why some/all people in this country at least, cannot stand soccer. There's more to the game that meets the eye with soccer, as far as defending/holding strategies go especially. Soccer is also a game that you have to know intimately from a strategic standpoint, unless you went to a soccer game, where the fans' reactions will always tell you something huge is about to go down. Football and basketball have its own share of gamesmanship intracacies, but the games are played at a pace where they can capture your short-term attention span more readily than baseball. It's interesting because in Europe, our brand of football bores the living heck out of them because there are too many breaks in the action.
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

Postby Netsfan5 » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:46 pm

Tavish wrote:
Netsfan5 wrote:So we can agree baseball is a more complicating game on the surface, but when digging further, basketball has tons of things within the game the casual fan wouldn't know same with football.

Baseball seems to be described as beautiful, glorious, intelligent. Why?


Let me ask you a simple baseball strategy question.

There is a runner on 1st. What should be taken into consideration when you decide if the runner should try and steal second?


Man, you definetley got me there...I'll try and guess,

1. The sucess rate and speed of the player trying to steal
2. The pitcher and fielders awareness of this player's skillset.
3. The batter and his tendicies.
4. What pitch will be thrown.
5. Arm of the catcher.

That's all I got. :-D

I don't want to be a jerkoff trying to base baseball here, I respect the sport, and it seems all you guys are really having a good intelligent conversation on why you all love baseball. And of course, the best post ever came from this. ;-D
Netsfan5
Little League Legend
Little League Legend


Posts: 10
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball

Postby wrveres » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:00 pm

Netsfan5 wrote:2. The pitcher and fielders awareness of this player's skillset. thats a given. this is the MLB not little league

4. What pitch will be thrown. only three people know before the pitch, the batter and the runner have to guess



Netsfan5 wrote:I don't want to be a jerkoff trying to base baseball here,


then why come into a baseball specific site and say basically, "Baseball sucks"?

edit: .I might add, if you did that on a football site, or on a basketball site, you would have been flamed like crazy. Notice that these nice people took the 'time' to awnser your question ...

baseball is higher intelligence. :-D
Last edited by wrveres on Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
wrveres
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe Musketeer
Posts: 31783
(Past Year: 642)
Joined: 2 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Big Pimpin » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:04 pm

Netsfan5 wrote:
Tavish wrote:
Netsfan5 wrote:So we can agree baseball is a more complicating game on the surface, but when digging further, basketball has tons of things within the game the casual fan wouldn't know same with football.

Baseball seems to be described as beautiful, glorious, intelligent. Why?


Let me ask you a simple baseball strategy question.

There is a runner on 1st. What should be taken into consideration when you decide if the runner should try and steal second?


Man, you definetley got me there...I'll try and guess,

1. The sucess rate and speed of the player trying to steal
2. The pitcher and fielders awareness of this player's skillset.
3. The batter and his tendicies.
4. What pitch will be thrown.
5. Arm of the catcher.

That's all I got. :-D

I don't want to be a jerkoff trying to base baseball here, I respect the sport, and it seems all you guys are really having a good intelligent conversation on why you all love baseball. And of course, the best post ever came from this. ;-D


I'll tack a few more onto your list. I'm sure others have even more...

Score of the game
Count in the AB
Pitcher's time to the plate
Whether or not he's being held at 1B
How many outs there are
Positioning of the middle infielders
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13716
(Past Year: 7)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Postby Netsfan5 » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:16 pm

wrveres wrote:
Netsfan5 wrote:2. The pitcher and fielders awareness of this player's skillset. thats a given. this is the MLB not little league

4. What pitch will be thrown. only three people know before the pitch, the batter and the runner have to guess



Netsfan5 wrote:I don't want to be a jerkoff trying to base baseball here,


then why come into a baseball specific site and say basically, "Baseball sucks"?

Go to the bball side and make an intelligent post like I did, and see the response. Some guy said basketballmonster sucked (there is a baseball one too I think), and we all responded respectfully.

edit: .I might add, if you did that on a football site, or on a basketball site, you would have been flamed like crazy. Notice that these nice people took the 'time' to awnser your question ...

baseball is higher intelligence. :-D
Netsfan5
Little League Legend
Little League Legend


Posts: 10
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball

Postby Dawgpound 1613 » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:45 am

As Tavish and others have said, baseball has so many nuances that no other sport has such that, if you watch and learn these nuances, the game opens up into an incredible experience. I think these nuances are why people refer to baseball as a thinking person's game and wveres' example is a great one.

I love sports and follow teams in all. But my passion is baseball. On any single pitch, the game can be decided, and a 2-1 pitch in the 1st can be as important, if not more, than the first pitch in the 9th. Not to mention, regardless of the score or the inning, as long as a team has an out remaining, they have a chance to win because of the lack of time limit - definitely not the case in any other sport.

Also, in baseball, players have such varied skills, but they are always forced to go up against players whose skills do not match well - something that rarely occurs in other sports. A great fastball pitcher can blow away a weak hitter in one AB, and then have to face a great FB hitter the next. However, you rarely see a C being guarded by a PG (that doesn't lead into an immediate double-team) or a LB trying to cover a WR. Yet, despite this, you still don't know who will "win" a given match-up due to the vagaries of hitting a round ball with a round bat (where even a 1/4 of an inch can mean the difference between pop-up and HR).

I could go on, but it won't matter if someone has closed their mind to the beauties of baseball. But, if you're open-minded, try watching a game and think along with the players/managers. Watch how the first pitch of an AB is used to set up later pitches or how a hitter will work a count to get into a situation where the pitcher is "forced" to throw a good pitch (and then watch as the pitcher still doesn't throw that pitch). Watch how a pitcher follows a high inside FB with a CB down and away or how, after several changeups on the outside of the plate, he hits the inside corner with a FB which the batter just watches go by for strike 3. Of course, if the batter is thinking along and guesses right, he might turn on that inside fastball or drive that down and away CB and completely screw up the pitcher's strategy. And that's just a single AB. We haven't even discussed how the presence of baserunners can change all of the above, as well as the score of the game, the skills of the pitcher and hitter as well as numerous other factors.

And this is also just the pitcher/batter interaction, which occurs hundreds of times in a single game. After that, start watching the game strategies and how, despite the score being the same, they can change pitch-to-pitch or how even when the score changes, team strategies can remain the same.

Lastly, what I love is that at the start of every game, you never know what you'll see and even the best team will lose to the worst team app. 1/3 of the time. In the NFL and NBA, if the best team plays the worst team 18 times, I doubt you'll see teams with records of 12-6 and 6-12 afterwards - yet that happens consistently in baseball.
Dawgpound 1613
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Sweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 2095
Joined: 7 Oct 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: \Lo*ca"tion\, n. 1. The act or process of locating. 2. Situation; place; locality.

Postby ukrneal » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:06 am

What I love about baseball:

1) The stats. I love counting all that stuff and comparing. Anyone who likes math will love baseball.
2) Lefties and righties - in most sports being lefty or righty has a limited effect on the game and how it is played. In baseball, this is not the case.
3) Different body-types. How a body like Kirby Puckett, RJ, and Pee Wee Reese (or Scooter) can all be successful boggles the mind. You see more similarities by position in other sports.
4) Opinions and battles. Everybody thinks they're an expert in baseball. He should have sent the guy! He should have held the guy! Why'd he let him pitch to Pujols? Why didn't they walk Him? Etc. I love that and there is less of this in other sports. I would say that sports like Baseketball and football are more about execution, while baseball is about choosing the guy to do something and then having that guy execute. There are more choices. In football, you're not going to take out Manning if he can throw. You'll winor lose on his ability. In baseball, you might take out Pedro, Santana, etc. to let someone else pitch. Or take out Sheffield for someone to field. I love this aspect.
5) Did I mention the stats!!?? <img src=/forums/images/smiles/kiss.gif>
6) Collisions at home plate/Plays at home. These are among the most memorable plays in all of sports. Mets get two outs in one inning at home, Jeter's flip, etc. For pure drama and excitement, I can't think of any other play (maybe the hail mary) where you have literally a few seconds to wait for the play you know is going to develop. "A fly ball to RF, the runner is ready to tag up. Winfield is under the ball. He catches it. Henderson tags up and is running for home. Winfield fires to the catcher. The throw is on target. It's gonna be close. Bench is blocking the plate. The play at the plate...." That expectation of an exciting play and watching it develop is magical.
7) Inside the park HR (and even triples). If you've ever seen one, you know how exciting this can be.
8) The sounds of the ballpark. While I don't mind watching football on tv, I never liked the sounds of the game and impact of bodies hitting bodies at the park itself. Baseball has great sounds: the ump, crack of the bat, hard strike 3, etc. I really enjoy just sitting back and listening to the game.
9) More stats - the way you can have all sorts of different streaks or unique game events: Perfect games, no hitters, hitting streaks, etc.
10) Rhythm of the game. Already discussed, but I love this.
11) A different hero all of the time. So many different players can be the hero. In other sports, it tends to be the same people all of the time: Elway, MJ, etc. And wile I enjoy those sports too, I love that Zumaya can be the hero. Or Irod. Or Verlander. Etc. Sure, some players are heroes more often (like Reggie), but the nature of baseball lends itself to a greater number.
ukrneal
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 2322
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby BxBombers951 » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:38 pm

i love baseball, and for a couple of reasons.

1. there is just enough scoring. there isnt enough scoring in hockey and soccer, and there is too much in basketball. football is another sport with enough scoring

2. baseball may be the least team sport, but i like it that way. i like knowing in any given game, 1 guy can make or break his team.

3. anything can happen in baseball. when the texans play the colts, we know who is gonna win. but when the royals play the yankees, you really have no idea. the tigers lost 100 games like 2 years ago and they r now makin a run at the WS.

4. the pace is good. its not as slow as you think. you have to enjoy the pitchers battle against the batter. it takes just as long for the pitcher to pitch as it does for the quarterback to get ready to throw or for the point guard to call a play.

I am not some random guy trying to annoy you all.


then y come, i think that was ur motive.
Image
BxBombers951
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar
Graphics Expert
Posts: 651
Joined: 12 May 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Yankee Stadium

Postby DK » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:00 pm

I love basketball.
And I love baseball.

But the most stretched-out time in sports are the last two minutes of a close basketball game.

About five time-outs, turnovers to stop time, personal fouls to stop the clock... Takes forever.
Image
DK
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 9533
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: on deck

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2015 MLB season starts in 3:37 hours
(and 100 days)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact