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I'm generally not one to START a political thread

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Postby StlSluggers » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:38 am

Coppermine wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:Again, you illustrate perfectly why you cannot be both religious and political.


That seems like a great place to end because I couldn't agree more. ;-D




Looking forward to seeing some Jose Reyes' legs vs. Yadier Molina's arm....

Man, that's going to be a heck of a battle. That throw Yadi made to get Roberts last night was unbelievable - and did you see the little smile on his face after they called Roberts out?

:-b
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:17 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:Again, you illustrate perfectly why you cannot be both religious and political.


That seems like a great place to end because I couldn't agree more. ;-D




Looking forward to seeing some Jose Reyes' legs vs. Yadier Molina's arm....

Man, that's going to be a heck of a battle. That throw Yadi made to get Roberts last night was unbelievable - and did you see the little smile on his face after they called Roberts out?

:-b


That throw was perfection; like Jessica Alba's boobs.
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Postby Art Vandelay » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:18 pm

I am so sick of this whole "scandal". The youngest of these guys who he flirted with was, what, 16? A 16 year-old is biologically and, often enough, emotionally mature enough to handle a sexual relationship. When I was sixteen, I treasured my sexual autonomy and I would've despised anyone who tried to infantilize me for the sake of politics.

If you take away the homophobia, the infantilization of the young men, and the political expediency of labeling the guy a pedophile (and blasting others for "not doing anything about it"), all you have is a workplace sexual harassment story. Maybe. We have no indication that the contact was non-consensual and, in fact, there's much evidence to the contrary. I mean, you can block people on AIM quite easily without them even being wise to it.

And if it is workplace sexual harassment, or inappropriate sexual contact between a worker and his superior, funny how nobody really cares about these charges unless it's coming from the other side. Thomas and Hill, Clinton and Lewinsky, partisans only give a crap about this stuff as far as it can be politically useful.

Not to mention that the only person who has claimed to have any actual sexual contact with Foley was 21 at the time, and no longer in the page program. Also, and this seems to be very important in this case, the age of consent in Washington DC is 16, which is the younest age that I've heard being tossed around for any of the pages involved.
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:24 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:I am so sick of this whole "scandal". The youngest of these guys who he flirted with was, what, 16? A 16 year-old is biologically and, often enough, emotionally mature enough to handle a sexual relationship. When I was sixteen, I treasured my sexual autonomy and I would've despised anyone who tried to infantilize me for the sake of politics.

If you take away the homophobia, the infantilization of the young men, and the political expediency of labeling the guy a pedophile (and blasting others for "not doing anything about it"), all you have is a workplace sexual harassment story. Maybe. We have no indication that the contact was non-consensual and, in fact, there's much evidence to the contrary. I mean, you can block people on AIM quite easily without them even being wise to it.

And if it is workplace sexual harassment, or inappropriate sexual contact between a worker and his superior, funny how nobody really cares about these charges unless it's coming from the other side. Thomas and Hill, Clinton and Lewinsky, partisans only give a crap about this stuff as far as it can be politically useful.

Not to mention that the only person who has claimed to have any actual sexual contact with Foley was 21 at the time, and no longer in the page program. Also, and this seems to be very important in this case, the age of consent in Washington DC is 16, which is the younest age that I've heard being tossed around for any of the pages involved.


All good points Art, and I agree for the most part... but if Foley were a democrat, things would be even wilder. It's more political than anything and I wish it wasn't, but the Republicans are the party of moral values and yada, yada, yada. I don't care about moral values to be honest. I don't care if Foley solicited male prostitutes for his own enjoyment.

But, there's a lot irony here. For one, Foley was the chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children committee. He often spoke publicly about the dangers teens face online by sexual predators. He personally, and his committee, and the law, do not draw the same distinction for 16 year olds as you do.

This is all piled up on the media's interpretation of republicans condemning democrats as being evil, immoral and "godless." Now we're into the whole hypocrit argument and it certainly holds true. Now AA made the point that very outspoken Christian conservatives are biting their tongues or making excuses for Foley simply because he's "one of them." There has been a huge case made by Christian conservatives against liberals and their perceived immorality and all of that in danger of crumbling based on this single incident... not just a guy sending "naughty emails" (to quote Tony Snow) but rather a congressman who is in charge of the exploited children committee and is a recognizable critic of the dangers teens, including 16 year olds, face online.
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Postby Cleveland Steamers » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:48 pm

Nice post Coppermine. So far I have agreed with you completely.

If what he did was not illegal, I wouldnt care one bit. If he does something immoral, it doesnt affect me until he starts letting it effect his job and position. Clinton was scathed by about every Republican known to man for doing something immoral, not illegal. His biggest problem was getting caught. Many of our country's great Presidents committed adultery while in the White House, its documented.

About Foley. Even if these pages were 18 (they werent) before he began his sexual inuendoes, something needed a change. If they were 18, Foley still compromised the intergrity of the page program by using it in a complete wrong way. If everything was legal, he should have resigned his position in the page program and let bi-gons be bi-gons but that would have been impossible. The Republicans would have made him resign because he is gay...and that apparently shines a terrible light on the homophobic GOP.
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:51 pm

Cleveland Steamers wrote:Nice post Coppermine. So far I have agreed with you completely.

If what he did was not illegal, I wouldnt care one bit. If he does something immoral, it doesnt affect me until he starts letting it effect his job and position. Clinton was scathed by about every Republican known to man for doing something immoral, not illegal. His biggest problem was getting caught. Many of our country's great Presidents committed adultery while in the White House, its documented.

About Foley. Even if these pages were 18 (they werent) before he began his sexual inuendoes, something needed a change. If they were 18, Foley still compromised the intergrity of the page program by using it in a complete wrong way. If everything was legal, he should have resigned his position in the page program and let bi-gons be bi-gons but that would have been impossible. The Republicans would have made him resign because he is gay...and that apparently shines a terrible light on the homophobic GOP.


The problem now is that the Republicans apparently KNEW he was gay and that he had sent these messages... and they covered it up to retain the seat since he's up for re-election.
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