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Postby Coppermine » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:06 am

slomo007 wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
Cleveland Steamers wrote:He made sexual innuendoes and comments to multiple pages under the age of 18. I agree with what AA has had to say. This is disgusting and I think its almost as bad hearing religious people, other politicians, and the media trying to condone his actions. I actually listened to Rush Limbaugh try and blame Foley's actions on the Democrats, since Clinton had a sex scandal then the Democrats condone this behavior and thats why Foley did these actions...its the dems fault. Haha. I think its so funny that he is comparing a guy getting a sexual favor from an ADULT consenting woman to trying to have sex with underage boys.


While I do agree what Foley did was worse than Clinton, you do have to keep in mind that Clinton was married while Foley is not. If not for the kids being underage, I would say Clinton's actions were actually quite worse. But, they were underage so obviously that's terrible.

Oh, and this thread should be locked. ;-7


Adultery is worse the pedophilia???

Yikes


May want to read what I wrote. ;-)


Its confusing you say Foley was Worse then clinton oh oh nevermind sorry that speed reading class I took must have some side effects.

Sorry... :-D ;-7


What he said was that if Foley were writing those messages to, say, an 18 year old, then what Clinton did was worse.

Give me a break, I see a lot more Christians condemning homosexuality than adultery... that's because adultery is pretty widespread, regardless of your morals, political leanings or religion.


Do you take in to account the offices that Foley and Clinton were in? Clinton was the President of the US. Kids looked up to him, idolized him, wanted to be him. If the pages he solicited had been 18 years old, then yes I think Clinton's actions were far worse than a single gay guy hitting on an 18 year old boy.


Kids don't look up to presidents, they look up to basketball players... like Kobe Bryant. That has nothing to do with it. If the pages he solicited were 18, this likely would just be a scandal of him being gay, which is not illegal.... just like adultery. Offices have nothing to do with it. Personally, I would not care regardless if Foley were just gay or if Clinton just got a hummer in the Oval Office. But Foley is not just gay, he's a pedophile and even comparing him to Clinton, or the fact that perhaps Clinton's actions were far worse than Foley's provided the pages were 18 is both speculative and ridiculous.

I'm not out to make this personal, i see what you're saying, but I very much disagree.
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Postby slomo007 » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:06 am

Coppermine wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
While I do agree what Foley did was worse than Clinton, you do have to keep in mind that Clinton was married while Foley is not. If not for the kids being underage, I would say Clinton's actions were actually quite worse. But, they were underage so obviously that's terrible.


So, what Foley did is worse than Clinton. But, if they were of legal age (ie, 18), I personally think that Clinton's actions would have been worse. But, that's not the case so obviously Foley's actions are terribly worse than Clinton's.

Should I stop using such large words for you two?


I disagree completely, and if that were the case, then hypocracy would be rampant in here; i'm just trying to get an idea of your moral scale? I'm under the impression that there is no sin worse to a conservative than homosexuality. I think that's absurd, but it certainly seems that way. Very few conservatives condemn adultery as adamently as homosexuality, and for good reason. Rudy Giuliani had an affair, I don't see people running around calling him a sinner.


Well, I definitely don't agree with or condone homosexuality. And obviously I don't agree with or condone adultery. But, between the two, I think adultery is probably a little worse....assuming homosexuality is between 2 single and willing men. Obviously a relationship between a man and boy trumps adultery.
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:08 am

slomo007 wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
While I do agree what Foley did was worse than Clinton, you do have to keep in mind that Clinton was married while Foley is not. If not for the kids being underage, I would say Clinton's actions were actually quite worse. But, they were underage so obviously that's terrible.


So, what Foley did is worse than Clinton. But, if they were of legal age (ie, 18), I personally think that Clinton's actions would have been worse. But, that's not the case so obviously Foley's actions are terribly worse than Clinton's.

Should I stop using such large words for you two?


I disagree completely, and if that were the case, then hypocracy would be rampant in here; i'm just trying to get an idea of your moral scale? I'm under the impression that there is no sin worse to a conservative than homosexuality. I think that's absurd, but it certainly seems that way. Very few conservatives condemn adultery as adamently as homosexuality, and for good reason. Rudy Giuliani had an affair, I don't see people running around calling him a sinner.


Well, I definitely don't agree with or condone homosexuality. And obviously I don't agree with or condone adultery. But, between the two, I think adultery is probably a little worse....assuming homosexuality is between 2 single and willing men. Obviously a relationship between a man and boy trumps adultery.


I am absolutely dumbfounded by that. It goes against everything I've ever heard from the so-called "moral majority." If that's how you feel, then it's an unusual position for a conservative.
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Postby slomo007 » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:10 am

Coppermine wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
Cleveland Steamers wrote:He made sexual innuendoes and comments to multiple pages under the age of 18. I agree with what AA has had to say. This is disgusting and I think its almost as bad hearing religious people, other politicians, and the media trying to condone his actions. I actually listened to Rush Limbaugh try and blame Foley's actions on the Democrats, since Clinton had a sex scandal then the Democrats condone this behavior and thats why Foley did these actions...its the dems fault. Haha. I think its so funny that he is comparing a guy getting a sexual favor from an ADULT consenting woman to trying to have sex with underage boys.


While I do agree what Foley did was worse than Clinton, you do have to keep in mind that Clinton was married while Foley is not. If not for the kids being underage, I would say Clinton's actions were actually quite worse. But, they were underage so obviously that's terrible.

Oh, and this thread should be locked. ;-7


Adultery is worse the pedophilia???

Yikes


May want to read what I wrote. ;-)


Its confusing you say Foley was Worse then clinton oh oh nevermind sorry that speed reading class I took must have some side effects.

Sorry... :-D ;-7


What he said was that if Foley were writing those messages to, say, an 18 year old, then what Clinton did was worse.

Give me a break, I see a lot more Christians condemning homosexuality than adultery... that's because adultery is pretty widespread, regardless of your morals, political leanings or religion.


Do you take in to account the offices that Foley and Clinton were in? Clinton was the President of the US. Kids looked up to him, idolized him, wanted to be him. If the pages he solicited had been 18 years old, then yes I think Clinton's actions were far worse than a single gay guy hitting on an 18 year old boy.


Kids don't look up to presidents, they look up to basketball players... like Kobe Bryant. That has nothing to do with it. If the pages he solicited were 18, this likely would just be a scandal of him being gay, which is not illegal.... just like adultery. Offices have nothing to do with it. Personally, I would not care regardless if Foley were just gay or if Clinton just got a hummer in the Oval Office. But Foley is not just gay, he's a pedophile and even comparing him to Clinton, or the fact that perhaps Clinton's actions were far worse than Foley's provided the pages were 18 is both speculative and ridiculous.

I'm not out to make this personal, i see what you're saying, but I very much disagree.


Fair enough, I'd say we disagree.

On a side note, don't you think that perhaps the heart of America's problems lies in the fact that too few kids grow up wanting to be the President of the US? I think the constant jabs at whoever is in the office have finally started to take a toll on the amount of respect (or lack thereof) that we as a society give the office (not the person in the office). I know freedom of speech is a right we should all have, but speech can be very persuasive and I am afraid to think about what future generations will perceive our President as.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:11 am

Coppermine wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Well, I definitely don't agree with or condone homosexuality. And obviously I don't agree with or condone adultery. But, between the two, I think adultery is probably a little worse....assuming homosexuality is between 2 single and willing men. Obviously a relationship between a man and boy trumps adultery.


I am absolutely dumbfounded by that. It goes against everything I've ever heard from the so-called "moral majority." If that's how you feel, then it's an unusual position for a conservative.


I actually agree with this as well. ;-D
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Postby StlSluggers » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:16 am

Coppermine wrote:I'm under the impression that there is no sin worse to a conservative than homosexuality. I think that's absurd, but it certainly seems that way. Very few conservatives condemn adultery as adamently as homosexuality, and for good reason. Rudy Giuliani had an affair, I don't see people running around calling him a sinner.

Catholics "rank" sin. They're the one with the ridiculous notion of Purgatory. Anyone who reads the Bible knows that a sin is a sin is a sin. There is no sin that is better or worse to commit. To your soul, adultery = pedophila = thievery = lying = murder - and all can be forgiven in exactly the same way.

There is only a degree of human impact in the difference between those sins.
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:18 am

slomo007 wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
Cleveland Steamers wrote:He made sexual innuendoes and comments to multiple pages under the age of 18. I agree with what AA has had to say. This is disgusting and I think its almost as bad hearing religious people, other politicians, and the media trying to condone his actions. I actually listened to Rush Limbaugh try and blame Foley's actions on the Democrats, since Clinton had a sex scandal then the Democrats condone this behavior and thats why Foley did these actions...its the dems fault. Haha. I think its so funny that he is comparing a guy getting a sexual favor from an ADULT consenting woman to trying to have sex with underage boys.


While I do agree what Foley did was worse than Clinton, you do have to keep in mind that Clinton was married while Foley is not. If not for the kids being underage, I would say Clinton's actions were actually quite worse. But, they were underage so obviously that's terrible.

Oh, and this thread should be locked. ;-7


Adultery is worse the pedophilia???

Yikes


May want to read what I wrote. ;-)


Its confusing you say Foley was Worse then clinton oh oh nevermind sorry that speed reading class I took must have some side effects.

Sorry... :-D ;-7


What he said was that if Foley were writing those messages to, say, an 18 year old, then what Clinton did was worse.

Give me a break, I see a lot more Christians condemning homosexuality than adultery... that's because adultery is pretty widespread, regardless of your morals, political leanings or religion.


Do you take in to account the offices that Foley and Clinton were in? Clinton was the President of the US. Kids looked up to him, idolized him, wanted to be him. If the pages he solicited had been 18 years old, then yes I think Clinton's actions were far worse than a single gay guy hitting on an 18 year old boy.


Kids don't look up to presidents, they look up to basketball players... like Kobe Bryant. That has nothing to do with it. If the pages he solicited were 18, this likely would just be a scandal of him being gay, which is not illegal.... just like adultery. Offices have nothing to do with it. Personally, I would not care regardless if Foley were just gay or if Clinton just got a hummer in the Oval Office. But Foley is not just gay, he's a pedophile and even comparing him to Clinton, or the fact that perhaps Clinton's actions were far worse than Foley's provided the pages were 18 is both speculative and ridiculous.

I'm not out to make this personal, i see what you're saying, but I very much disagree.


Fair enough, I'd say we disagree.

On a side note, don't you think that perhaps the heart of America's problems lies in the fact that too few kids grow up wanting to be the President of the US? I think the constant jabs at whoever is in the office have finally started to take a toll on the amount of respect (or lack thereof) that we as a society give the office (not the person in the office). I know freedom of speech is a right we should all have, but speech can be very persuasive and I am afraid to think about what future generations will perceive our President as.


The presidency is bigger than any one man (I think I got that line from Air Force One with Harrison Ford... that and "Get off my plane!" Haha, Han Solo for pres!). Anyway, here are a few comments to that...

First of all, I know America is the country where you can grow up to be "anything you want." But you have to admit the Presidency is out of reach for the vast majority of Americans. Perhaps kids should be thinking about becoming contributing members of society rather than a sleazy politician? That's a half joke anyway. In fact, one of the few exceptions to this is Clinton, who grew up in a lower-middle class single-parent home. I'd rather my kid look up to a president who grew into the presidency on his own rather than a president who born into an extremely wealthy and powerful family. But that's besides the point, I understand the adultery issue and the effect it may have one kids. I don't know if it really matters though. Any kid smart enough to become president someday would not be traumatized by a philandering president. I agree it sets a poor example, but so does.... uh, i'll bite my tongue there.

Point taken, Clinton is a bad role model in an important role model position. You say words and such have a big impact, and the media really pounded the Clinton affair into the ground and the heads of everyone. So the media isn't going very easy on Bush either? Well, I'd say that goes with the territory and any kid who thinks they can overcome all that to be an effective leader will get my vote in 40 years. :-D
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:22 am

StlSluggers wrote:
Coppermine wrote:I'm under the impression that there is no sin worse to a conservative than homosexuality. I think that's absurd, but it certainly seems that way. Very few conservatives condemn adultery as adamently as homosexuality, and for good reason. Rudy Giuliani had an affair, I don't see people running around calling him a sinner.

Catholics "rank" sin. They're the one with the ridiculous notion of Purgatory. Anyone who reads the Bible knows that a sin is a sin is a sin. There is no sin that is better or worse to commit. To your soul, adultery = pedophila = thievery = lying = murder - and all can be forgiven in exactly the same way.

There is only a degree of human impact in the difference between those sins.


Yeah, I hear ya there; perhaps my sin ranking agenda comes from the fact I was raised Catholic. In any case, I don't care who you are, I would never rank "lying" and "pedophilia" on the same scale.

So the example I was trying to make is in terms of what is legal. It's illegal to talk explicitly to a minor, regardless of their gender. But slomo's point was, all things being equal, if Foley had solicited an 18 year old page, regardless of male or female, Clinton's affair is "much worse" because he was president at the time.

Personally, if that was the case, then I'd put both offenses on the same level... neither would have broken the law in that case and neither adultery nor homosexulaity is illegal.

But my point is simply the conservative stance against homosexuality is FAR stronger than that against adultery.
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Postby StlSluggers » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:30 am

Coppermine wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
Coppermine wrote:I'm under the impression that there is no sin worse to a conservative than homosexuality. I think that's absurd, but it certainly seems that way. Very few conservatives condemn adultery as adamently as homosexuality, and for good reason. Rudy Giuliani had an affair, I don't see people running around calling him a sinner.

Catholics "rank" sin. They're the one with the ridiculous notion of Purgatory. Anyone who reads the Bible knows that a sin is a sin is a sin. There is no sin that is better or worse to commit. To your soul, adultery = pedophila = thievery = lying = murder - and all can be forgiven in exactly the same way.

There is only a degree of human impact in the difference between those sins.


Yeah, I hear ya there; perhaps my sin ranking agenda comes from the fact I was raised Catholic. In any case, I don't care who you are, I would never rank "lying" and "pedophilia" on the same scale.

So the example I was trying to make is in terms of what is legal. It's illegal to talk explicitly to a minor, regardless of their gender. But slomo's point was, all things being equal, if Foley had solicited an 18 year old page, regardless of male or female, Clinton's affair is "much worse" because he was president at the time.

Personally, if that was the case, then I'd put both offenses on the same level... neither would have broken the law in that case and neither adultery nor homosexulaity is illegal.

But my point is simply the conservative stance against homosexuality is FAR stronger than that against adultery.

Again, you illustrate perfectly why you cannot be both religious and political.
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Postby Coppermine » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:31 am

StlSluggers wrote:Again, you illustrate perfectly why you cannot be both religious and political.


That seems like a great place to end because I couldn't agree more. ;-D




Looking forward to seeing some Jose Reyes' legs vs. Yadier Molina's arm....
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