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Postby j24jags » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:47 pm

im about to PM you thanks a lot
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Postby J35J » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:50 pm

Yeah, Yoda, you can just sort like Mugrila said.

As far as time, it only took me about a week to get it all done. Had to go through every guys profile to get there age and position eligibilities. I've been doing it or the last few years so i'm getting used to it!!

Like I said before let me know if you PMed me and you haven't received it yet. I think I'm up around 35-40 emails sent so I might have missed someone........


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Postby RJ24VC15 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:59 pm

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Postby J35J » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:06 pm

RJ24VC15 wrote:mailto:49ers2k5@gmail.com


Thanks.


It should be on its way......


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Postby mets17 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:10 pm

J35J is a god among men
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Postby RugbyD » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:19 pm

i was going to put this in the other thread where you asked the question, but it would take it off topic, so i'll post feedback on your system in this thread.

One thing you definitely need to adjust is that you don't weight BA points by ABs. In your model, going by the 2006 stats, Catalanotto's .300 is worth the same as CLee's. In reality CLee's is worth far more b/c he has 624 ABs vs. Frankie's 437. This of course assumes that you will be projection ABs along with other stats when trying to rank for 2007.

I compared how your system would rank players as compared to mine (a very different process) and found some interesting things. I limited the sample size to OF with more than 300 ABs.

In this list, the number represents how much lower your system ranked a player as opposed to mine:

PLAYER
6 Jay Payton
6 Kenny Lofton
6 Reed Johnson
5 Ichiro Suzuki
4 Dave Roberts
4 Jacque Jones
4 Juan Pierre
4 Juan Rivera
3 Alex Rios
3 Andre Ethier
3 Corey Patterson
3 Endy Chavez
3 Gary Matthews Jr.
3 Magglio Ordonez
3 Marcus Thames
3 Rocco Baldelli
3 Vernon Wells
2 Brad Hawpe
2 Chris Duffy
2 Jay Gibbons
2 Jeremy Hermida
2 Josh Willingham
2 Matt Murton
2 Reggie Sanders
2 Vladimir Guerrero
2 Willy Taveras
1 Carl Crawford
1 Coco Crisp
1 Frank Catalanotto
1 Geoff Jenkins
1 Grady Sizemore
1 Jermaine Dye
1 Jose Bautista
1 Manny Ramirez
1 Matt Holliday
1 Melky Cabrera
1 Moises Alou
1 Nick Markakis
1 Ryan Langerhans
1 Xavier Nady
0 Alfonso Soriano
0 Bernie Williams
0 Brady Clark
0 Cory Sullivan
0 Emil Brown
0 Eric Byrnes
0 Jason Bay
0 Jeromy Burnitz
0 Ken Griffey Jr.
0 Mike Cameron
0 Milton Bradley
0 Trot Nixon
-1 Aaron Rowand
-1 Barry Bonds
-1 Bobby Abreu
-1 Brad Wilkerson
-1 Carlos Lee
-1 Cliff Floyd
-1 J.D. Drew
-1 Jim Edmonds
-1 Joey Gathright
-1 Johnny Damon
-1 Jonny Gomes
-1 Juan Encarnacion
-1 Kevin Mench
-1 Matt Stairs
-1 Preston Wilson
-1 Rondell White
-1 Shane Victorino
-1 Shawn Green
-1 Torii Hunter
-2 Brian Anderson
-2 David DeJesus
-2 Mark Kotsay
-2 Michael Cuddyer
-2 Raul Ibanez
-2 Steve Finley
-3 Carlos Beltran
-3 Casey Blake
-3 Garret Anderson
-3 Pat Burrell
-3 Scott Podsednik
-4 Austin Kearns
-4 Jason Michaels
-4 Luis Gonzalez
-4 Nick Swisher
-4 Randy Winn
-5 Adam Dunn
-5 Brian Giles
-5 Craig Monroe
-5 Curtis Granderson
-6 Andruw Jones
-6 Jeff Francoeur

Our separate and quite different systems came to a pretty good consensus considering that the most different we ranked a player was 6 places in either direction. What is interesting is the fact that we would arrive at such a close result even though I account for BA weight and you don't.

I entered a multiplier to your BA scoring formula to account for ABs: (playerAB/averageAB)*given_score. This next list represents how much lower your original system ranked players as opposed to the adjusted score. The list after that show the players old score on the left and his new score on the right.

14 Randy Winn
11 Luis Gonzalez
10 Brian Giles
9 Curtis Granderson
9 Juan Pierre
9 Mark Kotsay
8 Shawn Green
7 Brady Clark
7 Ichiro Suzuki
7 Jay Payton
7 Kevin Mench
7 Willy Taveras
6 Geoff Jenkins
5 Jason Michaels
5 Jeff Francoeur
5 Steve Finley
4 Cory Sullivan
4 Frank Catalanotto
4 Garret Anderson
4 Grady Sizemore
4 Juan Encarnacion
4 Preston Wilson
3 Gary Matthews Jr.
3 Magglio Ordonez
3 Melky Cabrera
3 Xavier Nady
2 Carlos Lee
2 Craig Monroe
2 Jonny Gomes
2 Jose Bautista
2 Vladimir Guerrero
1 Bernie Williams
1 Coco Crisp
1 David DeJesus
1 Emil Brown
1 Jacque Jones
1 Matt Holliday
1 Matt Stairs
1 Rondell White
1 Scott Podsednik
1 Vernon Wells
0 Aaron Rowand
0 Alfonso Soriano
0 Austin Kearns
0 Brian Anderson
0 Dave Roberts
0 Jeremy Hermida
0 Johnny Damon
0 Josh Willingham
0 Nick Markakis
0 Raul Ibanez
0 Reggie Sanders
0 Shane Victorino
-1 Andre Ethier
-1 Carl Crawford
-1 Eric Byrnes
-1 Jeromy Burnitz
-1 Joey Gathright
-1 Ken Griffey Jr.
-1 Ryan Langerhans
-1 Torii Hunter
-2 Adam Dunn
-2 Bobby Abreu
-2 Brad Hawpe
-2 Chris Duffy
-2 Cliff Floyd
-2 Jason Bay
-2 Michael Cuddyer
-2 Mike Cameron
-3 Brad Wilkerson
-3 Jermaine Dye
-3 Kenny Lofton
-3 Nick Swisher
-3 Trot Nixon
-4 Carlos Beltran
-4 J.D. Drew
-4 Jay Gibbons
-4 Matt Murton
-5 Andruw Jones
-5 Endy Chavez
-6 Jim Edmonds
-6 Marcus Thames
-6 Milton Bradley
-6 Pat Burrell
-6 Reed Johnson
-7 Corey Patterson
-8 Alex Rios
-9 Juan Rivera
-9 Manny Ramirez
-11 Casey Blake
-11 Rocco Baldelli
-15 Moises Alou
-17 Barry Bonds


OLD - NEW PLAYER
483 - 530 Alfonso Soriano
469 - 477 Carlos Beltran
462 - 503 Matt Holliday
457 - 476 Jermaine Dye
452 - 496 Carlos Lee
445 - 487 Vladimir Guerrero
435 - 457 Andruw Jones
433 - 470 Carl Crawford
430 - 482 Grady Sizemore
423 - 466 Raul Ibanez
422 - 448 Jason Bay
422 - 463 Vernon Wells
421 - 441 Bobby Abreu
411 - 444 Johnny Damon
401 - 472 Ichiro Suzuki
398 - 420 Michael Cuddyer
394 - 383 Manny Ramirez
388 - 409 Torii Hunter
382 - 402 Nick Swisher
381 - 426 Gary Matthews Jr.
379 - 398 Adam Dunn
376 - 395 Mike Cameron
373 - 407 Magglio Ordonez
371 - 393 Eric Byrnes
365 - 430 Juan Pierre
361 - 407 Jeff Francoeur
359 - 362 J.D. Drew
358 - 352 Corey Patterson
354 - 369 Austin Kearns
354 - 369 Craig Monroe
351 - 366 Jacque Jones
349 - 339 Alex Rios
348 - 342 Pat Burrell
347 - 352 Dave Roberts
340 - 329 Juan Rivera
338 - 343 Brad Hawpe
336 - 369 Brian Giles
333 - 346 Emil Brown
330 - 297 Barry Bonds
330 - 351 Juan Encarnacion
329 - 359 Curtis Granderson
326 - 337 Scott Podsednik
325 - 318 Reed Johnson
324 - 353 Luis Gonzalez
323 - 319 Kenny Lofton
317 - 322 Josh Willingham
315 - 333 Garret Anderson
313 - 270 Moises Alou
312 - 335 Jay Payton
310 - 286 Casey Blake
308 - 310 David DeJesus
308 - 299 Matt Murton
307 - 309 Nick Markakis
306 - 269 Rocco Baldelli
306 - 320 Shawn Green
305 - 310 Preston Wilson
303 - 317 Willy Taveras
301 - 286 Ken Griffey Jr.
301 - 325 Randy Winn
299 - 300 Geoff Jenkins
294 - 287 Melky Cabrera
293 - 296 Jason Michaels
290 - 286 Xavier Nady
290 - 254 Marcus Thames
288 - 269 Bernie Williams
285 - 250 Jim Edmonds
283 - 256 Andre Ethier
279 - 242 Milton Bradley
275 - 255 Shane Victorino
274 - 260 Frank Catalanotto
273 - 279 Mark Kotsay
271 - 252 Coco Crisp
270 - 249 Aaron Rowand
269 - 258 Kevin Mench
267 - 226 Endy Chavez
257 - 229 Trot Nixon
254 - 229 Joey Gathright
254 - 234 Jose Bautista
252 - 230 Jonny Gomes
249 - 234 Steve Finley
244 - 204 Reggie Sanders
238 - 201 Brad Wilkerson
238 - 198 Jay Gibbons
237 - 199 Cliff Floyd
236 - 202 Matt Stairs
234 - 189 Chris Duffy
229 - 202 Cory Sullivan
225 - 184 Jeromy Burnitz
222 - 204 Brady Clark
210 - 182 Brian Anderson
207 - 165 Ryan Langerhans
205 - 168 Rondell White
204 - 158 Jeremy Hermida

This next list shows how much lower your adjusted rankings rank a player as compared to my rankings.

16 Barry Bonds
16 Moises Alou
14 Rocco Baldelli
13 Juan Rivera
12 Reed Johnson
11 Alex Rios
10 Corey Patterson
10 Manny Ramirez
9 Kenny Lofton
9 Marcus Thames
8 Casey Blake
8 Endy Chavez
6 Jay Gibbons
6 Matt Murton
6 Milton Bradley
5 Jim Edmonds
4 Andre Ethier
4 Brad Hawpe
4 Chris Duffy
4 Dave Roberts
4 Jermaine Dye
3 J.D. Drew
3 Jacque Jones
3 Pat Burrell
3 Trot Nixon
2 Brad Wilkerson
2 Carl Crawford
2 Jason Bay
2 Jeremy Hermida
2 Josh Willingham
2 Mike Cameron
2 Reggie Sanders
2 Ryan Langerhans
2 Vernon Wells
1 Bobby Abreu
1 Carlos Beltran
1 Cliff Floyd
1 Eric Byrnes
1 Jeromy Burnitz
1 Ken Griffey Jr.
1 Nick Markakis
0 Alfonso Soriano
0 Coco Crisp
0 Gary Matthews Jr.
0 Joey Gathright
0 Magglio Ordonez
0 Matt Holliday
0 Michael Cuddyer
0 Torii Hunter
0 Vladimir Guerrero
-1 Aaron Rowand
-1 Andruw Jones
-1 Bernie Williams
-1 Emil Brown
-1 Jay Payton
-1 Johnny Damon
-1 Jose Bautista
-1 Nick Swisher
-1 Shane Victorino
-2 Brian Anderson
-2 Ichiro Suzuki
-2 Matt Stairs
-2 Melky Cabrera
-2 Raul Ibanez
-2 Rondell White
-2 Xavier Nady
-3 Adam Dunn
-3 Carlos Lee
-3 David DeJesus
-3 Frank Catalanotto
-3 Grady Sizemore
-3 Jonny Gomes
-4 Austin Kearns
-4 Cory Sullivan
-4 Scott Podsednik
-5 Geoff Jenkins
-5 Juan Encarnacion
-5 Juan Pierre
-5 Preston Wilson
-5 Willy Taveras
-7 Brady Clark
-7 Craig Monroe
-7 Garret Anderson
-7 Steve Finley
-8 Kevin Mench
-9 Jason Michaels
-9 Shawn Green
-11 Jeff Francoeur
-11 Mark Kotsay
-14 Curtis Granderson
-15 Brian Giles
-15 Luis Gonzalez
-18 Randy Winn

Given that we were fairly close on the original run, this is largely an inversion of the comparison between your orignal vs. your adjusted.

What this all means is that there is a flaw in your multipliers because your orignal rankings were close to mine even though I re-weighted BA and you did not. If you plan to stay within the principles of your current system, you'll need to change your multipliers after adding in the BA weight adjustment. My guess is that you'll just need to tone down your BA multiplier of 500.
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Postby soxfan364 » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:46 pm

Thanks!
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Postby J35J » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:03 pm

Rugby, WOW........the only thing I can think of to say in response is that you are trying to hard!! Its really quite a simple process and its only there to "PRE RANK" players. I use it to just get guys in a quick order, though a pretty good order, then I will go in and tweak things as necessary. If you try to rank your players purely based on a formula, well, good luck.

IMO, I think your trying to have your formula do too much, but thats just me. Nice work though!


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Postby RugbyD » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:20 pm

J35J wrote:Rugby, WOW........the only thing I can think of to say in response is that you are trying to hard!! Its really quite a simple process and its only there to "PRE RANK" players. I use it to just get guys in a quick order, though a pretty good order, then I will go in and tweak things as necessary. If you try to rank your players purely based on a formula, well, good luck.

IMO, I think your trying to have your formula do too much, but thats just me. Nice work though!


Jason

not really that much extra effort. if you look through the many other threads discussing ranking systems, it is par for the course that ratio-based stats have to be weighted to achieve their true meaning.
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Postby J35J » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:58 am

Well, to each their own I guess. Its working exactly how I want it to and that is I input my '07 rankings in and it gives me a quick ranking based on my predictions and then I can go back in and tweak the rankings where I see fit. Really not that big of a deal!

... the ranking thing was only "icing on the cake" as the main part of the spreadsheet was what I was really giving out.... All of '06 stats, ages, position eligibilities, etc. anyway....


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