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Who had the better 2006 season, Molina or Zaun???

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Who had the better 2006 season?

Molina
7
37%
Zaun
12
63%
 
Total votes : 19

Postby DevilDriver » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:10 pm

I voted for Molina because I thought this was for fantasy. In reality, Zaun was obviously better looking at the stats in the time he played.
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Postby mweir145 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:21 pm

Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:I just think its clear that Molina was better. If Zaun had played more than maybe, but he didn't. Molina had close to his career year. Molina caught more games, therefore, the chances of fielding mistakes is greater, and he still had a better fielding %. If Zaun was better...why wasn't he the starter? Oh yeah, because Zaun is not as good. OBP% is so overrated. Guy takes a walk, then goes back after the inning is over without scoring or knocking anybody in. Jason LaRue must of had a better year because he had better ratio numbers, higher OBP%, in limited play, with the better glove than Valentin, not true. Zaun = Larue, Valentin = Molina in this case.

I already posted a response to this post in the other thread.

And Havok, you do realize that whatever the result of this thread is, it doesn't determine who was better right? That's why I don't understand the purpose of this poll.


How does it not? If more people think 1 person is right than that person probably is (although the world was thought to be flat). Let the masses speak. If you think a girl is pretty, and 8 out of 10 guys think she's ugly, you can still think she's hot. But that doesn't change the fact that she's probably pretty ugly. LOL jk

Zaun's pretty ugly. :-)

So you're saying voters can't be biased and vote for the player they've heard more about or know?

It happens all the time in everything. Carlos Delgado didn't win the MVP in 2003 because he played for the Toronto Blue Jays, a team that most of the writers who voted knew absolutely nothing about because they didn't watch their games. He had better numbers then the eventual winner, Alex Rodriguez.

The majority opinion is not always the correct one. Polling the cafe on a topic isn't going to change a thing. If you want to prove something to me, you should actually do it using statistics, not who the public might pick.


In this case, its like persuading a Yankee fan that ARod is better than Jeter. Your own organization knows Molina is better (using the stats minus OBP%) its easy to see imo. Sorry Delgado didn't win MVP but players on winning teams get more attention. As you know, those teams tend to be coast teams with a large population and payroll these days. Zaun is pretty much a lifetime backup with some skills to spell a starter in my view.

Why would anybody use the stats "minus" the OBP? That's Zaun greatest advantage offensively on Molina. You can't just take out the statistics you don't want when evaluating a player it makes no sense.

Just because the Blue Jays think Molina is better than Zaun (I don't know if they still do, but they did at the time they signed him 8 months ago), doesn't mean they are right. I think that's pretty obvious.

Alex Rodriguez played for the Texas Rangers in 2003. One of the worst teams in the majors. Being on a winning team had nothing to do with the MVP that year.
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Postby Havok1517 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:32 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:I just think its clear that Molina was better. If Zaun had played more than maybe, but he didn't. Molina had close to his career year. Molina caught more games, therefore, the chances of fielding mistakes is greater, and he still had a better fielding %. If Zaun was better...why wasn't he the starter? Oh yeah, because Zaun is not as good. OBP% is so overrated. Guy takes a walk, then goes back after the inning is over without scoring or knocking anybody in. Jason LaRue must of had a better year because he had better ratio numbers, higher OBP%, in limited play, with the better glove than Valentin, not true. Zaun = Larue, Valentin = Molina in this case.

I already posted a response to this post in the other thread.

And Havok, you do realize that whatever the result of this thread is, it doesn't determine who was better right? That's why I don't understand the purpose of this poll.


How does it not? If more people think 1 person is right than that person probably is (although the world was thought to be flat). Let the masses speak. If you think a girl is pretty, and 8 out of 10 guys think she's ugly, you can still think she's hot. But that doesn't change the fact that she's probably pretty ugly. LOL jk

Zaun's pretty ugly. :-)

So you're saying voters can't be biased and vote for the player they've heard more about or know?

It happens all the time in everything. Carlos Delgado didn't win the MVP in 2003 because he played for the Toronto Blue Jays, a team that most of the writers who voted knew absolutely nothing about because they didn't watch their games. He had better numbers then the eventual winner, Alex Rodriguez.

The majority opinion is not always the correct one. Polling the cafe on a topic isn't going to change a thing. If you want to prove something to me, you should actually do it using statistics, not who the public might pick.


In this case, its like persuading a Yankee fan that ARod is better than Jeter. Your own organization knows Molina is better (using the stats minus OBP%) its easy to see imo. Sorry Delgado didn't win MVP but players on winning teams get more attention. As you know, those teams tend to be coast teams with a large population and payroll these days. Zaun is pretty much a lifetime backup with some skills to spell a starter in my view.

Why would anybody use the stats "minus" the OBP? That's Zaun greatest advantage offensively on Molina. You can't just take out the statistics you don't want when evaluating a player it makes no sense.

Just because the Blue Jays think Molina is better than Zaun (I don't know if they still do, but they did at the time they signed him 8 months ago), doesn't mean they are right. I think that's pretty obvious.

Alex Rodriguez played for the Texas Rangers in 2003. One of the worst teams in the majors. Being on a winning team had nothing to do with the MVP that year.


I meant "minus OBP%" because that is the only meaningful stat Zaun pretty much has over Molina. If you like Zaun over Molina, thats your problem, not mine. I think you're wrong.
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Postby Niffoc4 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:42 pm

I voted Molina as well, it is hard to take defense into account looking at stats, but from what I have read he is top-notch defensively, and his only real shortcoming is being exteremely slow.
That said, I would rather pay Zaun a million or so than give Molina 8 mill, I think Molina's better just not THAT much better. Also, the Jays probably would have been better served using the money on a slick fielding MI (like Alex Gonzalez), who probably still wouldn't have hit as badly as Russ Adams...
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Postby mweir145 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:01 am

Niffoc4 wrote:I voted Molina as well, it is hard to take defense into account looking at stats, but from what I have read he is top-notch defensively, and his only real shortcoming is being exteremely slow.

Bengie Molina is horrible defensively. Take it from somebody who actually watched the guy play this year. He is no longer anywhere near the defensive catcher he once was.
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Postby mweir145 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:03 am

Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:I just think its clear that Molina was better. If Zaun had played more than maybe, but he didn't. Molina had close to his career year. Molina caught more games, therefore, the chances of fielding mistakes is greater, and he still had a better fielding %. If Zaun was better...why wasn't he the starter? Oh yeah, because Zaun is not as good. OBP% is so overrated. Guy takes a walk, then goes back after the inning is over without scoring or knocking anybody in. Jason LaRue must of had a better year because he had better ratio numbers, higher OBP%, in limited play, with the better glove than Valentin, not true. Zaun = Larue, Valentin = Molina in this case.

I already posted a response to this post in the other thread.

And Havok, you do realize that whatever the result of this thread is, it doesn't determine who was better right? That's why I don't understand the purpose of this poll.


How does it not? If more people think 1 person is right than that person probably is (although the world was thought to be flat). Let the masses speak. If you think a girl is pretty, and 8 out of 10 guys think she's ugly, you can still think she's hot. But that doesn't change the fact that she's probably pretty ugly. LOL jk

Zaun's pretty ugly. :-)

So you're saying voters can't be biased and vote for the player they've heard more about or know?

It happens all the time in everything. Carlos Delgado didn't win the MVP in 2003 because he played for the Toronto Blue Jays, a team that most of the writers who voted knew absolutely nothing about because they didn't watch their games. He had better numbers then the eventual winner, Alex Rodriguez.

The majority opinion is not always the correct one. Polling the cafe on a topic isn't going to change a thing. If you want to prove something to me, you should actually do it using statistics, not who the public might pick.


In this case, its like persuading a Yankee fan that ARod is better than Jeter. Your own organization knows Molina is better (using the stats minus OBP%) its easy to see imo. Sorry Delgado didn't win MVP but players on winning teams get more attention. As you know, those teams tend to be coast teams with a large population and payroll these days. Zaun is pretty much a lifetime backup with some skills to spell a starter in my view.

Why would anybody use the stats "minus" the OBP? That's Zaun greatest advantage offensively on Molina. You can't just take out the statistics you don't want when evaluating a player it makes no sense.

Just because the Blue Jays think Molina is better than Zaun (I don't know if they still do, but they did at the time they signed him 8 months ago), doesn't mean they are right. I think that's pretty obvious.

Alex Rodriguez played for the Texas Rangers in 2003. One of the worst teams in the majors. Being on a winning team had nothing to do with the MVP that year.


I meant "minus OBP%" because that is the only meaningful stat Zaun pretty much has over Molina. If you like Zaun over Molina, thats your problem, not mine. I think you're wrong.

Zaun's huge advantage in OBP this year puts him over the top,as their SLG%'s are almost identical. Look at their OPS's. This isn't that hard a concept.
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Postby George_Foreman » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:04 am

Zaun was better this year even though Molina got more ABs. That said, if I had to take one next year, I'd probably take Molina all things equal.
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Postby mweir145 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:13 am

George_Foreman wrote:Zaun was better this year even though Molina got more ABs. That said, if I had to take one next year, I'd probably take Molina all things equal.

If I'm the Jays, I go with the considerably cheaper and better option in Zaun next year. Even if it's debatable on the offfensive side (and I don't believe it is, because Zaun had both a better season this year, and over his career), Zaun is a far better catcher defensively at this point, and his edge in the running game (in the fact that he doesn't clog up the bases whenever he gets on base) puts him up over the edge.

Just give Zaun a few more ABs, and give Phillips the rest of them. It's certainly the cheaper option, and the production you'd get from Molina agaisnt lefties doesn't go down by that much. They should have done it this year.
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Postby Havok1517 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:19 am

mweir145 wrote:
George_Foreman wrote:Zaun was better this year even though Molina got more ABs. That said, if I had to take one next year, I'd probably take Molina all things equal.

If I'm the Jays, I go with the considerably cheaper and better option in Zaun next year. Even if it's debatable on the offfensive side (and I don't believe it is, because Zaun had both a better season this year, and over his career), Zaun is a far better catcher defensively at this point, and his edge in the running game (in the fact that he doesn't clog up the bases whenever he gets on base) puts him up over the edge.

Just give Zaun a few more ABs, and give Phillips the rest of them. It's certainly the cheaper option, and the production you'd get from Molina agaisnt lefties doesn't go down by that much. They should have done it this year.


Zaun has had a better career than Molina how? OBP%??? HAHAHAAHAHAA

Nick Johnson had a better OBP% than Ryan Howard, I guess Nick's the man because of it. :-)
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Postby mweir145 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:29 am

Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
George_Foreman wrote:Zaun was better this year even though Molina got more ABs. That said, if I had to take one next year, I'd probably take Molina all things equal.

If I'm the Jays, I go with the considerably cheaper and better option in Zaun next year. Even if it's debatable on the offfensive side (and I don't believe it is, because Zaun had both a better season this year, and over his career), Zaun is a far better catcher defensively at this point, and his edge in the running game (in the fact that he doesn't clog up the bases whenever he gets on base) puts him up over the edge.

Just give Zaun a few more ABs, and give Phillips the rest of them. It's certainly the cheaper option, and the production you'd get from Molina agaisnt lefties doesn't go down by that much. They should have done it this year.


Zaun has had a better career than Molina how? OBP%??? HAHAHAAHAHAA

Nick Johnson had a better OBP% than Ryan Howard, I guess Nick's the man because of it. :-)

Offensively, Zaun has been better than Molina over his career. Look at OPS. And it's not like Molina's had considerably more ABs over his career either.

And as for the Nick Johnson reference, well I think I already commented on how off-base that was in the other thread.
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