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Postby wrveres » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:52 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:What I don't get is why the Cubs always think they need a big name to manage? It hasn't worked in the past. Do an actual search and find the best fit for your team.


I think it is more to do with appeasing the fans, seriouslly.
Its the Newspaper publisher mentality.
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:52 pm

Miner...you're losing the argument simply by the words in the links you're posting.

The links you've shown have specified what pennant each team has won...and that's with good reason; there are several different pennants each team can win.

You can win the league pennant just like you can win the division pennant. The reason you won't find divisional pennant winner lists is because that list is freaking huge. Three teams a league every season since the early nineties, two a league since the late sixties. Who wants to compile a list that long?

Remember the movie Angels in the Outfield? Roger asks his dad what it'll take for them to become a family again, and his father says the Angels need to win the pennant. Well, the movie ends with a division (aka pennant) clinching win over the White Sox, a division rival. ;-D
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Postby The Miner Part 2 » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:59 pm

davidmarver wrote:Three teams a league every season since the early nineties, two a league since the late sixties. Who wants to compile a list that long?


then find a link of just the yankees divisional pennants. or any team for that matter.
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Postby Hobbes » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:24 pm

I'll add my 2 cents to this. In my 35+ years of following baseball I've always understood it as common knowledge that winning the pennant meant winning the League Championship. I've never heard of divisional pennant winners.

Now it is certainly possible that the definition of the term "pennant" is gradually being relaxed in the common lexicon due to the introduction of the divisional races.

But it has always been my understanding that winning a pennant meant a trip to the World Series. Prior to this thread I have never heard somebody refer to divisional titles as pennants. And being a Braves fan I would certainly have had many opportunities to see divisional titles referred to that way. I've never heard a writer, broadcaster, or fan of the Braves mention that they have won 14 straight pennants. Never. And if it was so accepted that divisional titles were pennants, I'm sure I would have heard it at least once. I've always seen it as 14 divisional titles, 5 pennants, 1 WS win.

In my mind, pennants will always mean league titles.
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Postby Amazinz » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:52 pm

Hobbes wrote:Now it is certainly possible that the definition of the term "pennant" is gradually being relaxed in the common lexicon due to the introduction of the divisional races.

No this is not the case at all. It has actually become a lot less common to refer to a divisional title as a divisional pennant. It was much more frequent in the 70s and 80s which is supported somewhat by Murphy's call in 1973.

I think the people arguing against this are taking the wrong approach. Nobody is arguing that the term pennant is much more commonly used to refer to the league championship. This goes with out saying. I also feel like that there as been some good evidence to prove that divisional titles are, or at least at one time were, referred to divisional pennants.

If you need more evidence just go to Google and search for NL East pennant (or AL East pennant or whatever division tickles your fancy) and you'll find plenty of examples of high respected sources (New York Times, Washington Post, etc.) referring to them as divisional pennants.
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