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Postby KoopaTroopa211 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:10 pm

1337_Dude wrote:Inge would have my vote for the AL 3B gold glove. He leads the league by a wide margin both in RF and ZR. His problem is he does make a lot of errors. Because of that I wouldn't argue a Mike Lowell selection.


21 is a LOT of errors. Despite any other stats, I think that simply having more than a dozen E's will be his downfall, especially when Lowell and Chavez have a half-dozen or less each.
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Postby Havok1517 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:21 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I still can't see how there is even an argument for the NL MVP. It's clearly Pujols.


You mean the guy who's team has collapsed (despite his 8th inning 3 run HR the other night)? Meanwhile, Howard has propelled his Phillies from far back to contention. I think its clearly Howard.

The Cardinals are going to win the NL Central on the strength of his play. Without him, their team would be fighting to get 70 wins.

In the last 3 games, he's hit 2 three run shots. They ended up winning both games, and that's the reason they hold the 1.5 edge they have right now. If that's not being "clutch," I don't know what is. Over their 8 game losing streak, he went 8 for 25, which isn't certainly as good as he could do, but it wasn't his fault they collapsed.

As for Howard's Phillies, well atleast he has some good hitters to help him (like Utley, Rollins and Burrell). And they aren't even going to make the playoffs...

Pujols is the superior offensive player on the better team, where's the argument?


The Cards lose 1 game and the Astros win-out the Cards are forced the play a makeup game. There are some other scenarios that might happen and to say the Cards will for sure win is kinda crazy to me. I think Howard is the reason the Phillies are as close as they are. I mean 2 months ago they were still in 4th or 5th I believe in the NL east. Plus, they traded Lidle & Abreu. I vote Howard.
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Postby 1337_Dude » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:21 pm

KoopaTroopa211 wrote:
1337_Dude wrote:Inge would have my vote for the AL 3B gold glove. He leads the league by a wide margin both in RF and ZR. His problem is he does make a lot of errors. Because of that I wouldn't argue a Mike Lowell selection.


21 is a LOT of errors. Despite any other stats, I think that simply having more than a dozen E's will be his downfall, especially when Lowell and Chavez have a half-dozen or less each.

Well no he won't win at all. Voters pretty much look at errors and FP.
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Postby mweir145 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:20 pm

Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I still can't see how there is even an argument for the NL MVP. It's clearly Pujols.


You mean the guy who's team has collapsed (despite his 8th inning 3 run HR the other night)? Meanwhile, Howard has propelled his Phillies from far back to contention. I think its clearly Howard.

The Cardinals are going to win the NL Central on the strength of his play. Without him, their team would be fighting to get 70 wins.

In the last 3 games, he's hit 2 three run shots. They ended up winning both games, and that's the reason they hold the 1.5 edge they have right now. If that's not being "clutch," I don't know what is. Over their 8 game losing streak, he went 8 for 25, which isn't certainly as good as he could do, but it wasn't his fault they collapsed.

As for Howard's Phillies, well atleast he has some good hitters to help him (like Utley, Rollins and Burrell). And they aren't even going to make the playoffs...

Pujols is the superior offensive player on the better team, where's the argument?


The Cards lose 1 game and the Astros win-out the Cards are forced the play a makeup game. There are some other scenarios that might happen and to say the Cards will for sure win is kinda crazy to me. I think Howard is the reason the Phillies are as close as they are. I mean 2 months ago they were still in 4th or 5th I believe in the NL east. Plus, they traded Lidle & Abreu. I vote Howard.

You vote Howard even though he's a worse hitter and plays on a worse team that's not going to make the playoffs? :-?

Who cares if he's helped the Phillies come 2nd in the NL East? 2nd means absolutely nothing.
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Postby Havok1517 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:26 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I still can't see how there is even an argument for the NL MVP. It's clearly Pujols.


You mean the guy who's team has collapsed (despite his 8th inning 3 run HR the other night)? Meanwhile, Howard has propelled his Phillies from far back to contention. I think its clearly Howard.

The Cardinals are going to win the NL Central on the strength of his play. Without him, their team would be fighting to get 70 wins.

In the last 3 games, he's hit 2 three run shots. They ended up winning both games, and that's the reason they hold the 1.5 edge they have right now. If that's not being "clutch," I don't know what is. Over their 8 game losing streak, he went 8 for 25, which isn't certainly as good as he could do, but it wasn't his fault they collapsed.

As for Howard's Phillies, well atleast he has some good hitters to help him (like Utley, Rollins and Burrell). And they aren't even going to make the playoffs...

Pujols is the superior offensive player on the better team, where's the argument?


The Cards lose 1 game and the Astros win-out the Cards are forced the play a makeup game. There are some other scenarios that might happen and to say the Cards will for sure win is kinda crazy to me. I think Howard is the reason the Phillies are as close as they are. I mean 2 months ago they were still in 4th or 5th I believe in the NL east. Plus, they traded Lidle & Abreu. I vote Howard.

You vote Howard even though he's a worse hitter and plays on a worse team that's not going to make the playoffs? :-?

Who cares if he's helped the Phillies come 2nd in the NL East? 2nd means absolutely nothing.


Here is the current ESPN poll regarding the NL MVP...

Who is your pick for NL MVP?

63.6% Ryan Howard, Phillies
24.7% Albert Pujols, Cardinals
7.8% Carlos Beltran, Mets
3.9% Lance Berkman, Astros

Howard currently has more than a 2:1 (38.9% more votes) ratio over Pujols. Evidently a lot of people care and took notice.
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Postby mweir145 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:32 pm

Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I still can't see how there is even an argument for the NL MVP. It's clearly Pujols.


You mean the guy who's team has collapsed (despite his 8th inning 3 run HR the other night)? Meanwhile, Howard has propelled his Phillies from far back to contention. I think its clearly Howard.

The Cardinals are going to win the NL Central on the strength of his play. Without him, their team would be fighting to get 70 wins.

In the last 3 games, he's hit 2 three run shots. They ended up winning both games, and that's the reason they hold the 1.5 edge they have right now. If that's not being "clutch," I don't know what is. Over their 8 game losing streak, he went 8 for 25, which isn't certainly as good as he could do, but it wasn't his fault they collapsed.

As for Howard's Phillies, well atleast he has some good hitters to help him (like Utley, Rollins and Burrell). And they aren't even going to make the playoffs...

Pujols is the superior offensive player on the better team, where's the argument?


The Cards lose 1 game and the Astros win-out the Cards are forced the play a makeup game. There are some other scenarios that might happen and to say the Cards will for sure win is kinda crazy to me. I think Howard is the reason the Phillies are as close as they are. I mean 2 months ago they were still in 4th or 5th I believe in the NL east. Plus, they traded Lidle & Abreu. I vote Howard.

You vote Howard even though he's a worse hitter and plays on a worse team that's not going to make the playoffs? :-?

Who cares if he's helped the Phillies come 2nd in the NL East? 2nd means absolutely nothing.


Here is the current ESPN poll regarding the NL MVP...

Who is your pick for NL MVP?

63.6% Ryan Howard, Phillies
24.7% Albert Pujols, Cardinals
7.8% Carlos Beltran, Mets
3.9% Lance Berkman, Astros

Howard currently has more than a 2:1 (38.9% more votes) ratio over Pujols. Evidently a lot of people care and took notice.

Havok's new argument:

The ESPN poll voters say Howard is the MVP. They must be right. :-b
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Postby Havok1517 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:45 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I still can't see how there is even an argument for the NL MVP. It's clearly Pujols.


You mean the guy who's team has collapsed (despite his 8th inning 3 run HR the other night)? Meanwhile, Howard has propelled his Phillies from far back to contention. I think its clearly Howard.

The Cardinals are going to win the NL Central on the strength of his play. Without him, their team would be fighting to get 70 wins.

In the last 3 games, he's hit 2 three run shots. They ended up winning both games, and that's the reason they hold the 1.5 edge they have right now. If that's not being "clutch," I don't know what is. Over their 8 game losing streak, he went 8 for 25, which isn't certainly as good as he could do, but it wasn't his fault they collapsed.

As for Howard's Phillies, well atleast he has some good hitters to help him (like Utley, Rollins and Burrell). And they aren't even going to make the playoffs...

Pujols is the superior offensive player on the better team, where's the argument?


The Cards lose 1 game and the Astros win-out the Cards are forced the play a makeup game. There are some other scenarios that might happen and to say the Cards will for sure win is kinda crazy to me. I think Howard is the reason the Phillies are as close as they are. I mean 2 months ago they were still in 4th or 5th I believe in the NL east. Plus, they traded Lidle & Abreu. I vote Howard.

You vote Howard even though he's a worse hitter and plays on a worse team that's not going to make the playoffs? :-?

Who cares if he's helped the Phillies come 2nd in the NL East? 2nd means absolutely nothing.


Here is the current ESPN poll regarding the NL MVP...

Who is your pick for NL MVP?

63.6% Ryan Howard, Phillies
24.7% Albert Pujols, Cardinals
7.8% Carlos Beltran, Mets
3.9% Lance Berkman, Astros

Howard currently has more than a 2:1 (38.9% more votes) ratio over Pujols. Evidently a lot of people care and took notice.

Havok's new argument:

The ESPN poll voters say Howard is the MVP. They must be right. :-b


LOL No, I'm just saying and proving that many other people think that Howard is the superior choice this year. Pujols is great and any other year I'd think he has it with his numbers.

Howard 103 58 147 0 .313 Phillies 85 - 76
Pujols 117 48 136 7 .328 Cards 83 -77

They are very close but I think its Howard's year. Also, to say the Cards are the better team is wrong since the Phillies play in a better division and have a better record to boot.
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Postby mweir145 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:50 pm

Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I still can't see how there is even an argument for the NL MVP. It's clearly Pujols.


You mean the guy who's team has collapsed (despite his 8th inning 3 run HR the other night)? Meanwhile, Howard has propelled his Phillies from far back to contention. I think its clearly Howard.

The Cardinals are going to win the NL Central on the strength of his play. Without him, their team would be fighting to get 70 wins.

In the last 3 games, he's hit 2 three run shots. They ended up winning both games, and that's the reason they hold the 1.5 edge they have right now. If that's not being "clutch," I don't know what is. Over their 8 game losing streak, he went 8 for 25, which isn't certainly as good as he could do, but it wasn't his fault they collapsed.

As for Howard's Phillies, well atleast he has some good hitters to help him (like Utley, Rollins and Burrell). And they aren't even going to make the playoffs...

Pujols is the superior offensive player on the better team, where's the argument?


The Cards lose 1 game and the Astros win-out the Cards are forced the play a makeup game. There are some other scenarios that might happen and to say the Cards will for sure win is kinda crazy to me. I think Howard is the reason the Phillies are as close as they are. I mean 2 months ago they were still in 4th or 5th I believe in the NL east. Plus, they traded Lidle & Abreu. I vote Howard.

You vote Howard even though he's a worse hitter and plays on a worse team that's not going to make the playoffs? :-?

Who cares if he's helped the Phillies come 2nd in the NL East? 2nd means absolutely nothing.


Here is the current ESPN poll regarding the NL MVP...

Who is your pick for NL MVP?

63.6% Ryan Howard, Phillies
24.7% Albert Pujols, Cardinals
7.8% Carlos Beltran, Mets
3.9% Lance Berkman, Astros

Howard currently has more than a 2:1 (38.9% more votes) ratio over Pujols. Evidently a lot of people care and took notice.

Havok's new argument:

The ESPN poll voters say Howard is the MVP. They must be right. :-b


LOL No, I'm just saying and proving that many other people think that Howard is the superior choice this year. Pujols is great and any other year I'd think he has it with his numbers.

Howard 103 58 147 0 .313 Phillies 85 - 76
Pujols 117 48 136 7 .328 Cards 83 -77

They are very close but I think its Howard's year. Also, to say the Cards are the better team is wrong since the Phillies play in a better division and have a better record to boot.

So what you're saying is:

The majority of people think Howard is the right choice. They must be right. :-D

If that's not what you're point was in bringing that poll out then I'm sorry, but that's just about all I got from that.

As for bringing out their numbers, well Pujols has clearly been the better hitter this year. You can look at just about any stat with the exception of HRs and RBIs (and even that would be questionable if Pujols had played a full season), and it indicates that Albert has been better. And if St. Louis wins the Central, and the Phillies don't make the playoffs (and it looks like both of those things will happen over the next day or two), their team's respective records really aren't going to matter that much.
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Postby Havok1517 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:53 pm

Well, you said the Cards were a better team which isn't true and I just wanted to make that clear. I guess we'll have to wait who really gets it but Howard gets my vote and I'm obviously not alone.

Jason Stark is having the same conclusion I am (and he has a vote)

National League MVP
Ryan Howard, Phillies


"Got any foolproof methods for separating two men who clearly deserve this award just as much as the other? We could use a magic MVP formula in a big way, since we have a real mess on our hands with this pick. One moment, we see Howard getting intentionally walked with nobody on base and think: "There's the MVP." Ten seconds later, we watch Albert Pujols smoke a season-saving homer off a pitcher who had given up one run since July and ask: "How can he not be the MVP?" Well, Pujols had that "SportsCenter" moment many voters look for Wednesday.


HowardBut we're tipping slightly in Howard's direction because he's never even given the opportunity to have that moment anymore. He now has been intentionally walked 16 times in September, most of them in insane, Bonds-ian situations. That's 10 more intentional walks this month than Pujols. In fact, it's four more times than Carlos Beltran and Carlos Lee have been intentionally walked all season -- combined. And all those free trips to first base are telling us something about which of these guys the managers think most towers above the rest of his lineup. But here's what also helped push us toward Howard: Through Friday, Howard had the higher batting average (.385 to .363), on-base percentage (.551 to .463) and slugging percentage (.769 to .676) in September, for a team that declared itself dead two months ago and then charged into the wild-card lead.

But Regis, this is not our final answer. We have to fill out an actual ballot in this race in a couple of days, as opposed to merely filling space in this column. So this column was due first, we reserve the right to change our mind. There's just as compelling a case to be made for Pujols, too. So for both teams and both candidates, the final weekend is all about survival. It wouldn't be the first MVP election to come down to one final Sunday afternoon in the baseball season.
Apologies to: Pujols, Lance Berkman, Miguel Cabrera, Beltran and Jose Reyes."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/s ... id=2607487
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Postby mweir145 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:13 pm

Wait, so now Ryan Howard is the MVP because Jayson Stark says so?
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