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Why not nip it in the bud???

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Why not nip it in the bud???

Postby Havok1517 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:00 pm

As the 2006 season winds down and the playoffs soon to begin people are again wondering how their favorite teams will retool for 2007. The FA market is small but quite top-heavy with stud talent. As always, the most covented need is starting pitching with Zito, Schmidt, & Matsuzaka the top starters the be available. The whole Matsuzaka situation intrigues me. The process of posting a player by a Japanese team seems ridiculous to me considering the large sums of money usually exchanged just to negotiate with the player, not guaranteeing a deal makes the act even more absurd since the contract does not include money from the posting bid.

So, my question is this. Why not send scouts to Asian countries and sign players before they sign to their initial pro contracts? Most Japanese players pitched in High School before penning their 1st contract (ex. Matsuzaka). MLB teams have, in the past, signed many Asian players after thier contract has expired with Japanese clubs. But most of the guys that sign are close to, if not above, their mid-thirties. Now, I know that sounds simple and I am sure there is much more to it. But it cannot be much different than various scouts going to many Latin countries scouting and signing players for pro teams. Most of the those countries have professional teams that I'm sure would benefit from rostering players such as Fernando Martineez, Jose Tabata, & Carlos Truinfel in the future. Of course, in most cases, the Japanese economy is superior to those of most Latin countries. But for that reason, it almost seems like an easier task.

Why does the MLB continue to do this when these players can benefit more financially and probably develop to higher level faster playing in the majors/minors while improving their respective organizations? Granted it could hurt competitiveness but so does letting players like H. Matsui & I. Suzuki go. MLB organizations should sign these guys like Matsuzaka, whom everyone knew was a stud coming out of prep school, right out of High School so Japanese teams don't need compensation. With the right scouting crew and documentation needed, I don't see why this isn't done. If I were a Japanese player like Matsuzaka, Ishii, or Iwamura...why not retire, essentially become a FA like Nomo, then sign with a MLB team? So anybody wanna weigh in on this ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_system
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:18 pm

MLB has an agreement with the Japanese Pro leagues where they won't draft players from Japan/U.S. That way there won't be a bidding war and both leagues keep their costs lower.
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Postby NatsFan10 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:26 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:MLB has an agreement with the Japanese Pro leagues where they won't draft players from Japan/U.S. That way there won't be a bidding war and both leagues keep their costs lower.


What he said.

Also, a Japanese player could just retire and then sign with a MLB team, but Japanese rules prohibit a player that retires from affiliating with ANY baseball team for one year after retiring....a bit of a risky proposition.
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Postby wrveres » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:05 pm

Pogo is right on .

There is actaully a long history here. I can not remember the whole story, but there was a Japanese player that signed and then refused to play here in the MLB. (Homesick) MLB actually had a ban on Japanese players for quite sometime.

I'll look a little later and see if I can't dig up the story.
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Postby Yoda » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:13 pm

I believe that Japanese baseball is probably the second largest league in terms of business next to MLB.

I can't imagine why they would let MLB steal all their talented players when they have a successful league running over there. I am sure that MLB would love to draft every Japanese prospect but I am not sure if they share the sentiment.
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Postby NatsFan10 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:19 pm

wrveres wrote:Pogo is right on .

There is actaully a long history here. I can not remember the whole story, but there was a Japanese player that signed and then refused to play here in the MLB. (Homesick) MLB actually had a ban on Japanese players for quite sometime.

I'll look a little later and see if I can't dig up the story.


There has been a fairly loose gentlemen's agreement between MLB and the Japanese Leagues for awhile, but it has been strictly enforced ever since the Yankees basically stole Soriano away from the Hiroshima team.
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Postby Havok1517 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:16 pm

Actually, I've read in many places that only 2 Japanese teams usually make profits every year (Giants & 1 other). The rest is aided to those in debts by their subsidiary companies (usually the company that the team is named after). So, to say they actually actually produce a successful league is suspect. The MLB is an business and in most businesses. Successful companies attempt to exploit competing ventures for their gain. MLB should do nothing else but that. As I mentioned prior, most Latin countires have some sort of professional leauge and often/most times their top talent is scooped up (save Cuba) and rightly so imo. The financial security that a performing MLB player has is far better than any other basbeall league in the world.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:25 pm

Havok1517 wrote:Actually, I've read in many places that only 2 Japanese teams usually make profits every year (Giants & 1 other). The rest is aided to those in debts by their subsidiary companies (usually the company that the team is named after). So, to say they actually actually produce a successful league is suspect. The MLB is an business and in most businesses. Successful companies attempt to exploit competing ventures for their gain. MLB should do nothing else but that. As I mentioned prior, most Latin countires have some sort of professional leauge and often/most times their top talent is scooped up (save Cuba) and rightly so imo. The financial security that a performing MLB player has is far better than any other basbeall league in the world.
Minor league and major league free agents go to Japan all the time for more money than they can make in the States. Why would MLB want to open that opportunity up to every player elligible for the draft when odds are they have more to lose than gain?
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Postby Havok1517 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:03 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:Actually, I've read in many places that only 2 Japanese teams usually make profits every year (Giants & 1 other). The rest is aided to those in debts by their subsidiary companies (usually the company that the team is named after). So, to say they actually actually produce a successful league is suspect. The MLB is an business and in most businesses. Successful companies attempt to exploit competing ventures for their gain. MLB should do nothing else but that. As I mentioned prior, most Latin countires have some sort of professional leauge and often/most times their top talent is scooped up (save Cuba) and rightly so imo. The financial security that a performing MLB player has is far better than any other basbeall league in the world.

Minor league and major league free agents go to Japan all the time for more money than they can make in the States. Why would MLB want to open that opportunity up to every player elligible for the draft when odds are they have more to lose than gain?


That would make sense if those with the prospect of getting drafted in the US were forced to enter to MLB draft and sign with a MLB club. the US can't/won't draft Japanese players...so that that makes it virtually a monopoly on Japanese draftees. Most of the US & Latin players that go to Japan to play go because they weren't drafted, they'd make more money in Japan only because they'd get to play, or aren't up to par with major league standards anymore or ever (see Glenn Braggs). Those eligible to be drafted by US teams can go wherever they want. They are just reasonable and choose the MLB because they typically make more money while being close to home. The MLB has more to offer. Asian players would be close to home in a country like Japan but they won't make as much money, no question. You have to enter the draft to be drafted. There isn't much to lose.

Say I'm a pitching from Stanford and I don't enter the draft. I'm essentially a FA. A Japanese team comes and offers me 1 million dollars and 1 million dollar signing bonus to play right away on their team. The Angels come and offer me $300K and $750K signing bonus to play on their minor league team. Knowing that if I perform I can make more money in the US than I can in Japan playing baseball longterm and I'd be in the US which is a closer to home. Why did Kevin Miller want to play for Boston instead of in Japan, when at the moment were offering him more? I see no basis for your argument. The Japanese League can't compete with the MLB if that is what you're insinuating would happen if they opened up the flood gates. That river would flow just the same and maybe a little better.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:18 pm

You really think a 20 year old is going to turn down 1 million dollars?
Even if he doesn't take the money to play in Japan he now has a bargaining chip to negotiate thus driving up his price for a MLB team. Right now draftees have no other option but the Independent leagues and they don't pay jack. I just don't think it would be worth it for the handful of Japanese players they would sign after the draft.
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