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MVPs, Cy Youngs, ROYs etc.

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Postby Yin_Xu88 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:09 am

why are people still picking Carpenter over Webb for the NL Cy Young? Carpenter isnt even the best pitcher in his divison.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:14 am

Yin_Xu88 wrote:why are people still picking Carpenter over Webb for the NL Cy Young? Carpenter isnt even the best pitcher in his divison.


Yeah, that would be Ben Sheets! ;-D

Oh, you probably meant CZam... ;-7 :-b
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:15 am

Trot Nixon wrote:Justin Morneau is my pick, not sure if anyone brought this up, I don't buying into the whole arguement of Jeter having a great year despite of all the injuries around him so he should win the MVP, last i checked he still has Damon, A-Rod and Giambi hitting around him so that arguement has no merit.

Morneau is my pick because he's hit about .350+ since June I believe, just when Minnesota started their playoff run, so in my mind, its not coincedence that his great year and the Twins turn around coincide, therefore, he's my pick for MVP


No...

...it has plenty of merit, whether you choose to see it or not. Jeter has flat out been worth more than just about every other MVP candidate. If he's worth more to his team, then he's the MVP. Bottom line.

Again, I stress that Jeter should win the award if you're a believer in giving the MVP to a team that actually accomplished something. Otherwise, Hafner would get it. The Indians didn't do anything, but Hafner was the best player in the league in 2006. Jeter was the best player on a winning team.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:18 am

brewcrew4you wrote:I don't think that he is the most VALUEABLE player. I'm defining it as valuable to his team, which, I think, is big Hurt. Without Jeter, the Yanks still win the East, imo. Without Hurt, I don't think that the A's are a playoff team. Runs created doesn't = mvp. If they put in a Runs created award, Jeter will lead himself to victory, I'm sure.


He creates more runs per game than Thomas.

Jeter creates 8.9 runs per game. He's in 4th in the AL in that category, and he isn't a slugger. He's a singles-hitting shortstop who hits in the 2-hole.

Thomas is a slugger, who hits in the middle of the lineup. Yet he's only worth 7.5 runs per game....17th best in the American League.

So how is Thomas more valuable to his team, if Jeter is worth more runs to his team? It's got nothing to do with Yankees vs. Athletics. Jeter has simply been a more valuable and more useful player in 2006 than has Frank Thomas. He should get the award based on such.
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Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:14 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:
brewcrew4you wrote:I don't think that he is the most VALUEABLE player. I'm defining it as valuable to his team, which, I think, is big Hurt. Without Jeter, the Yanks still win the East, imo. Without Hurt, I don't think that the A's are a playoff team. Runs created doesn't = mvp. If they put in a Runs created award, Jeter will lead himself to victory, I'm sure.


He creates more runs per game than Thomas.

Jeter creates 8.9 runs per game. He's in 4th in the AL in that category, and he isn't a slugger. He's a singles-hitting shortstop who hits in the 2-hole.

Thomas is a slugger, who hits in the middle of the lineup. Yet he's only worth 7.5 runs per game....17th best in the American League.

So how is Thomas more valuable to his team, if Jeter is worth more runs to his team? It's got nothing to do with Yankees vs. Athletics. Jeter has simply been a more valuable and more useful player in 2006 than has Frank Thomas. He should get the award based on such.


Here's a theoretical question, so don't slam me. :-D Does RC tie at all to actual Runs scored? Because the interesting thing that just dawned on me was, say Jeter has created 130 runs, and the Yanks have scored 910. Now say Thomas has created 115 runs, but the A's have scored 690. Now simple math would say that Thomas had a hand in 1/6 of Oakland's runs, and Jeter had a hand in 1/7 of the Yankees' runs, which would (theoretically) make Thomas more valuable to his team.

I didn't look up numbers, so that entire statement may be faulty. But the premise of it is not. I guess I just don't know enough about RC to know if it interacts with actual Runs scored at all. My guess is that it does not, since it's based on SLG and OBP and such, but that would be sweet if it did...
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Postby Yin_Xu88 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:30 am

Big Pimpin wrote:
Yin_Xu88 wrote:why are people still picking Carpenter over Webb for the NL Cy Young? Carpenter isnt even the best pitcher in his divison.


Yeah, that would be Ben Sheets! ;-D

Oh, you probably meant CZam... ;-7 :-b


no. I meant Roy Oswalt
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Postby George_Foreman » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:48 am

Big Pimpin wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
brewcrew4you wrote:I don't think that he is the most VALUEABLE player. I'm defining it as valuable to his team, which, I think, is big Hurt. Without Jeter, the Yanks still win the East, imo. Without Hurt, I don't think that the A's are a playoff team. Runs created doesn't = mvp. If they put in a Runs created award, Jeter will lead himself to victory, I'm sure.


He creates more runs per game than Thomas.

Jeter creates 8.9 runs per game. He's in 4th in the AL in that category, and he isn't a slugger. He's a singles-hitting shortstop who hits in the 2-hole.

Thomas is a slugger, who hits in the middle of the lineup. Yet he's only worth 7.5 runs per game....17th best in the American League.

So how is Thomas more valuable to his team, if Jeter is worth more runs to his team? It's got nothing to do with Yankees vs. Athletics. Jeter has simply been a more valuable and more useful player in 2006 than has Frank Thomas. He should get the award based on such.


Here's a theoretical question, so don't slam me. :-D Does RC tie at all to actual Runs scored? Because the interesting thing that just dawned on me was, say Jeter has created 130 runs, and the Yanks have scored 910. Now say Thomas has created 115 runs, but the A's have scored 690. Now simple math would say that Thomas had a hand in 1/6 of Oakland's runs, and Jeter had a hand in 1/7 of the Yankees' runs, which would (theoretically) make Thomas more valuable to his team.

I didn't look up numbers, so that entire statement may be faulty. But the premise of it is not. I guess I just don't know enough about RC to know if it interacts with actual Runs scored at all. My guess is that it does not, since it's based on SLG and OBP and such, but that would be sweet if it did...

Runs Created

It looks at stuff like BB, GIDP, SF, stuff like that rather than the actual number of runs scored. With that said, I do believe that your point is valid; Jeter may have had the most RC, but it's not like that's independent of his lineup, which guarantees him pitchers throwing from the stretch, defenders being out of position to hold runners, and a healthy diet of meaty fastballs because they don't want to face Giambi and ARod with runners on.

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Postby Strasil42 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:21 pm

Trot Nixon wrote:Justin Morneau is my pick, not sure if anyone brought this up, I don't buying into the whole arguement of Jeter having a great year despite of all the injuries around him so he should win the MVP, last i checked he still has Damon, A-Rod and Giambi hitting around him so that arguement has no merit.



BATTING STATS
Yankees (32-21)

J. Damon CF
M. Cabrera LF
D. Jeter SS
J. Posada C
B. Williams DH
A. Phillips 1B
R. Cano 2B
M. Cairo 3B
K. Thompson RF

Looks like a great lineup right there.

We used Aaron Guiel, Bubba Crosby, Terrance Long,, and Miguel Cairo in the starting lineup for most of the year. Not to mention hacks like Ponson and Kris Wilson as our starters.
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