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Clemens selfish?

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Postby eftda » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:19 am

wrveres wrote:do you guys even realize that he couldn't start the season with the team.

He declined arbitration last winter so he wasn't even elig to be signed by the Astros until May.

this whole thread is so funny.
\


Seriously. I am torn on which side to pick but as long as Clemens keeps my ERA down then I'll keep him on my Fantasy Team.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:23 am

1337_Dude wrote:He isn't the only reason they are out of it, but I think he had a hand in it.


Um...

...he also had a hand in why they are IN it. If he didn't come back at all, Houston would have been dead in the water a long, long time ago.
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Re: Clemens selfish?

Postby gfantasy » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:09 am

TheYanks04 wrote:
gfantasy wrote:
TheYanks04 wrote: That alternate theory is that Clemens got caught using roids last season and MLB hushed it up and cut an un-official deal with Clemens that he not play for a few months as punishment. Probably total nonsense, but there were rumors flying around in this regard that were on some of the wports radio shows and it would not shock anyone's mind to find out that Clemens' workouts were/are just as much nonsense as Bonds' are. But in his case, he has managed to really avoid any serious suspicion.


Do you have a link for this?



It's all over the web and was discussed ad-nauseum.

See:
http://www.deadspin.com/sports/baseball ... 174998.php

There is an SI article supposedly debunking it at:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/previe ... r0327%252F

But you have to be a subscriber to getthe whole article (which I am not). I am sure there are other articles on this. I am not saying any of this is true, just that the theory has been out there and it is not out of the realm of plausible.


Cool. Thanks!
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Postby rainman23 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:44 pm

I still think it's a silly argument. Apparently some of you guys are starting with the premise, "If a player only plays half the season when he could play more, then he's selfish." If that's your premise, then you're right, the conclusion is clear. Clemens is selfish.

But your premise is faulty. It's a matter of opinion, not a given. My opinion is that if a guy only wants to play half a season, and guys are standing in line to pay him to do just that, then what we've got here is a contract. It ain't an ethical issue. Just my opinion, mind you.

My guess is if you asked his Houston teammates, most of them would indicate they'd rather have half a Clemens than none at all. Would there be a couple disgruntled guys who would like to only play half a season, too, and are mad because he can do it and they can't? Sure. Would there be a couple like you that just resent the fact that he's not there all year? Maybe. And these are factors the Astros management has to take into account...that possibility of dissension in the clubhouse. But none of that impacts whether or not Clemens was a good guy taking an opportunity that was available to him.

Just my opinion...
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Postby mrkrab2003 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:08 pm

silly yankee fans, you guys really have no clue what you are talking about. Take a look at what has happen to pedro at the end of the season. Fact of the matter is clemens cannot pitch a full season of baseball anymore. He is at his peak right now, which is right where the astros want him to be. These are prolly the same yankee fans that think giradi would go back to ny.lol
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Postby gfantasy » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:12 pm

mrkrab2003 wrote:silly yankee fans, you guys really have no clue what you are talking about. Take a look at what has happen to pedro at the end of the season. Fact of the matter is clemens cannot pitch a full season of baseball anymore. He is at his peak right now, which is right where the astros want him to be. These are prolly the same yankee fans that think giradi would go back to ny.lol


Guys dont usually 'peak' at 40+ years
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Postby mrkrab2003 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:27 pm

he is at a peak(for the season) for a 44 yr old pitcher. Hence the reason he sat out the first half of the season. Simple strategy
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Postby 1337_Dude » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:16 pm

mrkrab2003 wrote:silly yankee fans, you guys really have no clue what you are talking about. Take a look at what has happen to pedro at the end of the season. Fact of the matter is clemens cannot pitch a full season of baseball anymore. He is at his peak right now, which is right where the astros want him to be. These are prolly the same yankee fans that think giradi would go back to ny.lol

First of all you keep saying "Yankee fans" that makes you come across as a bit ignorant since there are Yankee fans on both sides of this. Had Roger gone through arbitration and gone back to them to begin with, I have feeling that they would have been in the playoffs as opposed to just out of them, which is where they are now. He's started at least 29 games in each of the past 5 years. To say that he couldn't have managed near a full season is kind of silly. Most pitchers can't pitch a full season at 44, most pitchers aren't Roger Clemens.



wrveres wrote:do you guys even realize that he couldn't start the season with the team.

I will admit that I forgot about that. Though I think he could have just gone through arbitration with them, since I honestly believe he planned on going back there the whole time.
Last edited by 1337_Dude on Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BritSox » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:10 pm

gfantasy wrote:
mrkrab2003 wrote:silly yankee fans, you guys really have no clue what you are talking about. Take a look at what has happen to pedro at the end of the season. Fact of the matter is clemens cannot pitch a full season of baseball anymore. He is at his peak right now, which is right where the astros want him to be. These are prolly the same yankee fans that think giradi would go back to ny.lol


Guys dont usually 'peak' at 40+ years


Yah, the point clearly wasn't that he's pitching the best he ever has, it's that he's right in midseason form right now whereas last time out he faded down the stretch.
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Postby mrkrab2003 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:07 pm

exactly the shelf life on his arm isnt what it used to be.
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