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Top 25 in a dynasty draft 2007

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Postby mak1277 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:07 pm

I don't quite understand how Cabrera is consistently ranked top-2 or 3, while Wright is consistently ranked at the bottom of the first round. They play the same position, are the same age (basically) and have similar stats. I think the 10 extra steals Wright gives will balance out the 5-10 extra HR's Cabrera might provide.

I just struggle to truly separate these 2 guys in any meaningful way.
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Postby activechamp2006 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:18 pm

cubbies1 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:If this is a true dynasty, as you said, then I think this list has a LOT of holes in it. This would be my approximate ranking:

1. Pujols
2. Cabrera
3. Howard
4. Ortiz
5. Arod
6. Santana
7. Vlad
8. Teixera
9. Hafner
10. Reyes
11. Sizemore
12. Wright
13. Crawford
14. Beltran
15. Utley
16. V. Wells
17. Soriano
18. Berkman
19. Jeter
20. Man Ram
21. Holliday
22. Delmon Young
23. Carlos Lee
24. Bay
25. Rollins



thanks for the reply

two questions:

why is vernon wells ahead of berkman? both are having near career years, but berkmans career stats all look to be better than wells, is it just the two year age difference, and wells stealing a few more bases?

How does a 23 year old who just had a 20 80 120 60 .300 season not make in above 10, even if the power does decline next year (i dont think it will) all the other numbers will pretty much stay the same.


i agree reyes is a legit top 8 player.. people who rank him lower are the ones who got shafted by not taking him this season.. jay bay has to be a top 15 player, hes only improving.. his power numbers are getting better every year.. i dont see why he wont be a 300 40 120 100 12 guy next season.. that would sure make my top 15
vernon wells needs to get off of all these ranks.. hes top 30 at best, anyone who hits in toronto can be good..
and get delmon young off these top 25 lists, that makes me sick.. he has proven nothing, hes top 75-100 to me.. everyone needs to please stop valuing age so high with players that have proven nothing.. except how to throw a bat at an umpire..
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Postby The Artful Dodger » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:23 pm

Yoda wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:
Attaboy, research is overrated! :-D

If I could be serious for a minute, I think Wright deserves at least a top 10 spot, late top 5 even. Same goes for Beltran and Soriano.


Based on this year's production, I like Wright at the end of 1st round.

As far as Beltran/Soriano are concerned, I have them sort of lumped with Reyes/Crawford. I have the latter combo ranked ahead due to age and career progression. I see Beltran/Soriano as slightly more volatile than them at this point. Beltran has had a couple of off-years (whether injury induced or not). I really think this is Soriano's career year and it won't get any better for him.


I agree with your sentiment regarding Soriano and Beltran. I would be somewhat risk averse as to drafting them in the top 5, but I wouldn't have a problem with a late 1st round pick. However, I tend to see long-term leagues more in the vein of the immediate future (one year, two years, three years) and I believe Beltran and Soriano should be productive (probably not in current form per se), but a pretty darn good value pick as that building block to build your team around for the first few years or so...and then hope the young 'uns you draft later...the Alex Gordons, the Justin Uptons take hold.

activechamp2006 wrote:i agree reyes is a legit top 8 player.. people who rank him lower are the ones who got shafted by not taking him this season..


I didn't draft Reyes on any of my teams and am personally satisfied with the likes of Carl Crawford, M-Cab, or Jay Bay. Not to take anything away from Reyes, I'm just not sold on him being a solidified 20-60 man year in and year out just yet. His 20 HR outburst could've overvalued him going into next season. There's absolutely no way I'd take Reyes in Round 1 over the likes of Beltran, Vlad, Manny, or Hafner. So, don't go off saying that the folks who didn't take Reyes should be kicking themselves or are doing so; that just makes you look like a mark or a homer for Reyes in epic proportions.

mak1277 wrote:I don't quite understand how Cabrera is consistently ranked top-2 or 3, while Wright is consistently ranked at the bottom of the first round. They play the same position, are the same age (basically) and have similar stats. I think the 10 extra steals Wright gives will balance out the 5-10 extra HR's Cabrera might provide.

I just struggle to truly separate these 2 guys in any meaningful way.


That's true. I remember saying that M-Cab and Wright should be top 5 picks in keeper/dynasty leagues. Personally, I wouldn't take Howard at a 5 over Wright. But then, you look at the likes of what Howard and Hafner have done, and if Vlad gets one or two more big bats into that Angels lineup, well Wright's immediate value takes a bit of a hit here. I guess it's the bad taste of a power shortage after the HR derby that gives Wright's value a little hit, but I can see an argument made for Wright landing top 5.

TB13 wrote:Guess I am the only one on the Garrett Atkins bandwagon. He's a top-25 player this year (and is even better in OPS leagues) and one would logically expect for him to continue to grow.


I like Atkins a great deal, but if you compare him to more of a hard-hitting power slugger like Matt Holliday, I'd still take Holliday into the top 25 with Atkins on the outside looking in. Atkins has posted M-Cab type numbers this year and for what it's worth, I see him being picked within the top 25-50 range.
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Postby TB13 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:45 pm

mak1277 wrote:I don't quite understand how Cabrera is consistently ranked top-2 or 3, while Wright is consistently ranked at the bottom of the first round. They play the same position, are the same age (basically) and have similar stats. I think the 10 extra steals Wright gives will balance out the 5-10 extra HR's Cabrera might provide.

I just struggle to truly separate these 2 guys in any meaningful way.

IMO, there is a difference between the two. First of all, they may be of a smilar age (Wright is basically a year older), but MCab has has 3.5 years, whereas Wright has had 2.5. Within that time frame, Miggy has grown leaps and bounds every year. The increase in BA, OPB & OPS has been astounding. Wright has basically been the same type of hitter within the same frame. Now, I understand that Wright will improve, but when you look at the yearly leaps that Miggy is making, Wright does not measure up, IMO.

When you look at their stats, in theory they look similar. However, some of the periperal stats, are much different. MCab has a better BA by a whopping 30 points & a better OPS by an even bigger 90 points. That is a HUGE disparity. Not to mention the fact that Wright hit in a better lineup and in a better park (I realize that Shea is a pitcher's park as well, but not to the extreme extent that Florida is). MCab has also managed to score about 15 runs more than Wright, all in a weaker lineup.

To me MCab's ceiling is that much higher than Wright's. Wright will probably very well become an elite player, but Miggy projects to be in the Pujols class. Meaning maybe not as good, but still enough to be the "elite of the elite". At least that is how I see it.
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Postby Yoda » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:46 pm

mak1277 wrote:I don't quite understand how Cabrera is consistently ranked top-2 or 3, while Wright is consistently ranked at the bottom of the first round. They play the same position, are the same age (basically) and have similar stats. I think the 10 extra steals Wright gives will balance out the 5-10 extra HR's Cabrera might provide.

I just struggle to truly separate these 2 guys in any meaningful way.


Umm maybe because MCab is younger and better than Wright? :-D
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Postby disgruntledjetsfan » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:20 pm

slomo007 wrote:If this is a true dynasty, as you said, then I think this list has a LOT of holes in it. This would be my approximate ranking:

1. Pujols
2. Cabrera
3. Howard
4. Ortiz
5. Arod
6. Santana
7. Vlad
8. Teixera
9. Hafner
10. Reyes
11. Sizemore
12. Wright
13. Crawford
14. Beltran
15. Utley
16. V. Wells
17. Soriano
18. Berkman
19. Jeter
20. Man Ram
21. Holliday
22. Delmon Young
23. Carlos Lee
24. Bay
25. Rollins



I don't understand how you could possibly have Reyes, Soriano, and Beltran where each are located on the list :-?

I'll post my list in a minute.
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Postby disgruntledjetsfan » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:31 pm

Well here is my list:


1. Albert Pujols
2. Ryan Howard
3. Alfonso Soriano
4. David Ortiz
5. Jose Reyes
6. Johan Santana
7. Alex Rodriguez
8. Miguel Cabrerra
9. Vladimir Guerrero
10. David Wright
11. Carlos Beltran
12. Chase Utley
13. Carl Crawford
14. Travis Hafner
15. Grady Sizemore
16. Manny Ramirez
17. Mark Teixeira
18. Lance Berkman
19. Matt Holliday
20. Derek Jeter
21. Jason Bay
22. Carlos Lee
23. Vernon Wells
24. Delmon Young
25. Francisco Liriano
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Postby mak1277 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:14 pm

Yoda wrote:
mak1277 wrote:I don't quite understand how Cabrera is consistently ranked top-2 or 3, while Wright is consistently ranked at the bottom of the first round. They play the same position, are the same age (basically) and have similar stats. I think the 10 extra steals Wright gives will balance out the 5-10 extra HR's Cabrera might provide.

I just struggle to truly separate these 2 guys in any meaningful way.


Umm maybe because MCab is younger and better than Wright? :-D


He's only 4 or 5 months younger...absolutely not a meaningful difference.

That being said, I understand where everyone is coming from on this...and really, the difference between the 2nd pick and the 10th is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I guess part of my problem is a bias I have towards Wright as a player in general, over Cabrera...not really a fantasy issue at all.
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Postby Yoda » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:03 pm

mak1277 wrote:
Yoda wrote:
mak1277 wrote:I don't quite understand how Cabrera is consistently ranked top-2 or 3, while Wright is consistently ranked at the bottom of the first round. They play the same position, are the same age (basically) and have similar stats. I think the 10 extra steals Wright gives will balance out the 5-10 extra HR's Cabrera might provide.

I just struggle to truly separate these 2 guys in any meaningful way.


Umm maybe because MCab is younger and better than Wright? :-D


He's only 4 or 5 months younger...absolutely not a meaningful difference.

That being said, I understand where everyone is coming from on this...and really, the difference between the 2nd pick and the 10th is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I guess part of my problem is a bias I have towards Wright as a player in general, over Cabrera...not really a fantasy issue at all.


Well isn't it better to have no bias towards/against anyone and just go with numbers?

I love Wright as I have him in my keeper league. However, Miggy is a far better hitter than Wright as he has proven in his entire professional career. I just go by numbers. ;-D
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Postby disgruntledjetsfan » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:27 am

Yoda wrote:
mak1277 wrote:
Yoda wrote:
mak1277 wrote:I don't quite understand how Cabrera is consistently ranked top-2 or 3, while Wright is consistently ranked at the bottom of the first round. They play the same position, are the same age (basically) and have similar stats. I think the 10 extra steals Wright gives will balance out the 5-10 extra HR's Cabrera might provide.

I just struggle to truly separate these 2 guys in any meaningful way.


Umm maybe because MCab is younger and better than Wright? :-D


He's only 4 or 5 months younger...absolutely not a meaningful difference.

That being said, I understand where everyone is coming from on this...and really, the difference between the 2nd pick and the 10th is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I guess part of my problem is a bias I have towards Wright as a player in general, over Cabrera...not really a fantasy issue at all.


Well isn't it better to have no bias towards/against anyone and just go with numbers?

I love Wright as I have him in my keeper league. However, Miggy is a far better hitter than Wright as he has proven in his entire professional career. I just go by numbers. ;-D



But isn't having him 2nd overall a bit extreme? I mean, ahead of Ryan Howard, Carlos Beltran, Jose Reyes, Alfonso Soriano, Johan Santana, David Ortiz, AND Alex Rodriguez seems a little bit ridiculous to me. I mean, I could understand someone taking Miguel Cabrera ahead of some of these players, but ALL of them??
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