Wickman back with Braves for 2007

[George_Foreman]

Who do you give up to get Lidge?

Signing Wicky doesn't eliminate those options; it just gives them a foundation to build from. Rather than limiting their options, I think this signing makes them more versitile with their pen for next year. They can still go after guys through trades and the like, but it's not like there's a wealth of free agent talent at the closer position this year. There are no Wagners or Hoffmans out there to look at. By doing this now, the Braves have the option of taking a good deal if it comes along or letting the bad ones pass without being forced to enter the season w/o a closer.

And say what you will about the money, but show me other guys with closing creditials and how much they get paid next year.

[RynMan]

Who do you give up to get Lidge?

Signing Wicky doesn't eliminate those options; it just gives them a foundation to build from. Rather than limiting their options, I think this signing makes them more versitile with their pen for next year. They can still go after guys through trades and the like, but it's not like there's a wealth of free agent talent at the closer position this year. There are no Wagners or Hoffmans out there to look at. By doing this now, the Braves have the option of taking a good deal if it comes along or letting the bad ones pass without being forced to enter the season w/o a closer.

And say what you will about the money, but show me other guys with closing creditials and how much they get paid next year.

I can see your dilemma GF, and its probably easier for me as I haven't seen my team lose game after game in the last few innings, to spit at this signing. JS is probably just so over the whole ordeal that he wanted SOMETHING that is somewhat stable.

But I will show you some guys with closing credentials and their salaries:

Joe Borowski $327,000
Bobby Jenks $340,000
Johnathon Papelbon $ 335,400
Huston Street $ 339,625
JJ Putz $ 415,000
Joe Nathan $ 3,750,000
Akinori Otsuka $ 1,750,000
Chris Ray $ 335,000
Brad Lidge $ 3,975,000
Chad Cordero $ 525,000
Francisco Cordero $ 4,125,000
Brian Fuentes $2,000,000
Mike Gonzalez $ 347,000

Those are current closers as of today - there are probably more under 6 million but I couldn't be bothered checking all of them.

How about guys like

Rodney
Duchscherer
Timlim
Coffey
Wheeler
Julio

All have had closing experience, and don't cost 6 million.

I think Valverde would even be a good gamble if you got him very cheap.

[Yoda]

Who do you give up to get Lidge?

Signing Wicky doesn't eliminate those options; it just gives them a foundation to build from. Rather than limiting their options, I think this signing makes them more versitile with their pen for next year. They can still go after guys through trades and the like, but it's not like there's a wealth of free agent talent at the closer position this year. There are no Wagners or Hoffmans out there to look at. By doing this now, the Braves have the option of taking a good deal if it comes along or letting the bad ones pass without being forced to enter the season w/o a closer.

And say what you will about the money, but show me other guys with closing creditials and how much they get paid next year.

I can see your dilemma GF, and its probably easier for me as I haven't seen my team lose game after game in the last few innings, to spit at this signing. JS is probably just so over the whole ordeal that he wanted SOMETHING that is somewhat stable.

But I will show you some guys with closing credentials and their salaries:

Joe Borowski $327,000
Bobby Jenks $340,000
Johnathon Papelbon $ 335,400
Huston Street $ 339,625
JJ Putz $ 415,000
Joe Nathan $ 3,750,000
Akinori Otsuka $ 1,750,000
Chris Ray $ 335,000
Brad Lidge $ 3,975,000
Chad Cordero $ 525,000
Francisco Cordero $ 4,125,000
Brian Fuentes $2,000,000
Mike Gonzalez $ 347,000

Those are current closers as of today - there are probably more under 6 million but I couldn't be bothered checking all of them.

How about guys like

Rodney
Duchscherer
Timlim
Coffey
Wheeler
Julio

All have had closing experience, and don't cost 6 million.

I think Valverde would even be a good gamble if you got him very cheap.

I would take Wickman over Rodney, Duch, Timiln, Coffey, Wheeler, Julio 100 times out of 100.

THe other guys you mentioned, 80% of them are not available through FA.

[RynMan]

I would take Wickman over Rodney, Duch, Timiln, Coffey, Wheeler, Julio 100 times out of 100.

You're a braver man than I am. So you are saying that you would take Wickman at 6 million over those guys.....cuz that's what it comes down to.

THe other guys you mentioned, 80% of them are not available through FA.

And? I never said they were.....

[PlayingWithFire]

I would take Wickman over Rodney, Duch, Timiln, Coffey, Wheeler, Julio 100 times out of 100.

You're a braver man than I am. So you are saying that you would take Wickman at 6 million over those guys.....cuz that's what it comes down to.

how many Ws would Wickman add to the Braves had he been the Brave's closer the whole year? Why mess with success? The above guys don't have the credential that Wickman has. Is Wickman a risk to get hurt? Yes. Is Rivera or Hoffman a risk to get hurt? Yes. There's always risks but Wickman is a whole lot safer than the above guys.

THe other guys you mentioned, 80% of them are not available through FA.

And? I never said they were.....

Closers don't grow on trees, just because other teams had success developing closers within the organization doesn't mean the Braves could do it next season. Guys like Street, Putz and Lidge all worked their way from setup man to closers. You can't just rush rookies to the closer role and expect success. With every Brad Lidge there's an Ambiorix Burgos who doesn't pay off. Wickman is worth that 6 million if the Braves have him this year for the whole year.

[Yoda]

I would take Wickman over Rodney, Duch, Timiln, Coffey, Wheeler, Julio 100 times out of 100.

You're a braver man than I am. So you are saying that you would take Wickman at 6 million over those guys.....cuz that's what it comes down to.

6M for one year? Yep I would.

In the one game that I had to win, I would take Wickman over them any day. And most people would also, given his track record.

[RynMan]

I would take Wickman over Rodney, Duch, Timiln, Coffey, Wheeler, Julio 100 times out of 100.

You're a braver man than I am. So you are saying that you would take Wickman at 6 million over those guys.....cuz that's what it comes down to.

6M for one year? Yep I would.

In the one game that I had to win, I would take Wickman over them any day. And most people would also, given his track record.

That's fine.

[brandnew]

I can't believe I'm reading some of this stuff. The Braves tried the approach of young guys last year, they learned their lesson. RELYING on young guys with injury histories will kill you. Establish the back end of your bullpen with a closer that has been fantastic for you, and then build from there. Having Devine, Boyer, and Startup healthy/good will be a PLUS, not a necessity. I think they have the potential to have one of the very best bullpens in the league with: Villarreal, LeRew, McBride, Startup, Boyer, Devine, and Wickman.

Ryn... what are you talking about? The price tag in trade value a bunch of those guys have would not be worth the money they're giving to Wickman for one year... the biggest thing here is that it's a ONE YEAR deal. The Braves have both Devine and Boyer waiting in the wings, so paying someone a little cheaper for a long-term deal would've been a pain in the ass. Wickman has been a mentor to the young guys, gives them a closer for the year, and then after that the young guys can take over the reins if they succeed.

[Dawgpound 1613]

Who do you give up to get Lidge?

Signing Wicky doesn't eliminate those options; it just gives them a foundation to build from. Rather than limiting their options, I think this signing makes them more versitile with their pen for next year. They can still go after guys through trades and the like, but it's not like there's a wealth of free agent talent at the closer position this year. There are no Wagners or Hoffmans out there to look at. By doing this now, the Braves have the option of taking a good deal if it comes along or letting the bad ones pass without being forced to enter the season w/o a closer.

And say what you will about the money, but show me other guys with closing creditials and how much they get paid next year.

I can see your dilemma GF, and its probably easier for me as I haven't seen my team lose game after game in the last few innings, to spit at this signing. JS is probably just so over the whole ordeal that he wanted SOMETHING that is somewhat stable.

But I will show you some guys with closing credentials and their salaries:

Joe Borowski $327,000
Bobby Jenks $340,000
Johnathon Papelbon $ 335,400
Huston Street $ 339,625
JJ Putz $ 415,000
Joe Nathan $ 3,750,000
Akinori Otsuka $ 1,750,000
Chris Ray $ 335,000
Brad Lidge $ 3,975,000
Chad Cordero $ 525,000
Francisco Cordero $ 4,125,000
Brian Fuentes $2,000,000
Mike Gonzalez $ 347,000

Those are current closers as of today - there are probably more under 6 million but I couldn't be bothered checking all of them.

How about guys like

Rodney
Duchscherer
Timlim
Coffey
Wheeler
Julio

All have had closing experience, and don't cost 6 million.

I think Valverde would even be a good gamble if you got him very cheap.

You're kidding, right? Most of the sub-$2M closers you list are non-arb/non-FA eligible players whose limited service time gave them little/no bargaining power. The ONLY closer on your list signed as a FA to be closer was Borowski (who is making $1M thanks to incentives) and while he has panned out, he was no less of a gamble than Reitsma.

Players like Howry, Eyre, Farnsworth, etc. were signed at $4M+/year to be SET-UP men, not closers and, outside of Borowski, EVERY RP signed as a FA with expectations of being a closer signed for a minimum of $5M per (and most for multiple years).

Is it a gamble? Yes. Any 38+ y.o pitcher is an injury risk. But, ala Hoffman, Wickman doesn't throw hard such that the risk is lessened and, unlike other pitchers named, he isn't coming off an injury either. Even if he does get hurt, it is only a 1 year deal. And while $6.5M is no "bargain", it is in the realm of "lesser" closers these days (e.g. Todd Jones, Percival, Demspter, etc. - all of which signed multi-year contracts).

The Braves know what they're getting with the player since he's been there 2 months. He fits in. He is as "proven" as any other potential FA closer this off-season and allows the Braves another year to groom their sub-$2M closer (i.e. Devine, Boyer, Lerew or any other young pitcher who has little bargaining power).

So while it isn't a great deal, it isn't horrible and it won't be the worst signing this coming off-season. And I'm willing to bet no closer with 30+ saves each of the last two years will be signed for less than $6M per this next off-season (and likely will require multiple years).

Now all the Braves need is a few more RP and hope that Hudson, Hampton and/or Davies give the Braves better SP than this year (teaching Francoeur to take a pitch might help as well).