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How would YOU play it??

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How would YOU play it??

Postby pokerplaya » Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:07 am

Hey everyone, here's another installment of How would YOU play it, where I give an example of a NL texas hold em hand and how I played it...then you can all give your feedback on how much I screwed up. ;-D

I'd been playing well all day, making some good calls to win about 75 bucks for the day at a .10/.25 table.

The hand:

I'm dealt AJ suited on the button. I elect to simply call the big blind, and see a flop. Three players including myself go to the flop, and the flop comes out AJ8, two diamonds. The first player to act I have pegged as a moron, who sucked out on me to hit an inside straight on the river when he didn't even have close to the right odds to call. He's super agressive and often makes moves that are total bluffs. He puts in a pot sized bet. I'm confident that I have him beat. The next player to act puts an abnormally large raise in, about 6 times that of the pot. I now have to decide whether to call/raise/fold with my top two pair.

I realize that I am likely pot committed if I make the call, so I decide it's really a raise/fold situation, so at least there is some fold equity if I decide to take this hand all the way. I move all in for the rest of my chips, thinking that I'm likely a favorite, with the only hand that the re-raiser having to beat my holding being 88. Limping with JJ or AA just doesn't seem likely. I fully expect the table donk to fold, but he doesn't, calling the bet with his obscene chip stack after getting rather lucky in the last few hands. He calls, the other player also calls, but since he has less chips than us, a side pot is created for me and the table idiot.

Turn comes a blank, river is a Q of diamonds.

When it's all said and done, the table idiot flips over 79 of diamonds and scoops the entire pot with his river flush. He invested about 20 bucks after facing a raise and then a re raise all in when he only had a dollar invested in the pot. The other hand, by the original raiser, was the 88 and I was indeed beaten there. However, I would have won a sizeable side pot if I hadn't gotten sucked out on.

Now, here's the question: Did I screw up with my play? Limping in with AJ suited might have seemed tight/weak but I don't mind that play. After the loose/agressive/crazy guy originally raised, it didn't phase me a bit, but I contemplated folding to the re-raise. However, I felt like I had a good chance of being good, only really being in bad shape if I was up against the set of 8's, as I highly doubted that he held JJ or AA. When he re-raised, and re-raised such a HUGE amount, I felt that perhaps he held A8 for a smaller two pair, or even more likely had A10/A9 and wanted to win the pot right there.

So once I thought I was best, I elected to re-raise for the rest of my chips fully putting the first guy on a bluff or at best a semi-bluff with a flush/straight draw and giving him even WORSE odds to draw to those prayers. Unfortunately, I don't think players as bad even know what pot odds are.

So, how would you play it? Call? Raise? Fold?
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Postby Madison » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:04 am

Fold.

You knew you were ahead of the donk, but the other guy most likely had him pegged as a donk as well, and wanted to make him put all his chips in the pot on the draw. You only had 4 outs to win the hand at the most, if in fact the other guy had you beaten.

Depends on your read of the reraiser though. If he was a solid player, and it sounds like he was, you figured you were behind, in which case folding is the right play. If you really believed you were holding the best hand, there's no way you fold to lesser hands or draws.

So since you believed your read that you were holding the best hand, you played it correctly. Just missed on the read is all, and got sucked out on.

Oh, as to preflop, I rarely raise with A/J as it's a relatively weak hand. I will once in awhile just to throw a curveball out there, but for the most part I don't. Too easy to run into a better hand and get sandbagged for a solid chunk of change.
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Postby pokerplaya » Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:03 pm

Based on my read, I thought I was ahead. He was a fairly solid player, but I couldn't see him limping with any holding other than 88 to have me beat, and there were a lot of other options that he could have had that I had dominated. I figured he was raising to try and drive me out of the pot and isolate the idiot, with a hand like A8 or A10. My read turned out to be incorrect, but I think I played the hand correctly based on my read.

I'm happy to report that I composed myself, rebought, took all of the donks chips, and won another 100 bucks which at a 25 buy in table is more than enough in my book. ;-D
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Postby Pacman » Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:31 pm

I'm a Hold 'em novice, but I try to play smart when I play (usually on a free play site, specificlaly ParyPoker). I've read a couple of books, including Doyle Brunson's Super System. Anyway, all I wanted to add to this thread is my frustration at players like the one pokerplaya described as the "moron". I assume guys like this are more rare in "real money" sites, but they're freakin EVERYWHERE on the free sites... I'm talking about players who stay in every hand and raise and re-raise no matter what's in their hand. Too often, these guys win hands by catching cards on the river that they had no business waiting for, as real players would not stay in many such hands.

I find it hard to improve my game on these free sites because of all the "automatic raisers" I encounter. I guess that's the rub, for being able to practice on free sites. Sorry to hear that there are other such players on money sites too.



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Postby pokerplaya » Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:53 pm

Pacman wrote:I'm a Hold 'em novice, but I try to play smart when I play (usually on a free play site, specificlaly ParyPoker). I've read a couple of books, including Doyle Brunson's Super System. Anyway, all I wanted to add to this thread is my frustration at players like the one pokerplaya described as the "moron". I assume guys like this are more rare in "real money" sites, but they're freakin EVERYWHERE on the free sites... I'm talking about players who stay in every hand and raise and re-raise no matter what's in their hand. Too often, these guys win hands by catching cards on the river that they had no business waiting for, as real players would not stay in many such hands.

I find it hard to improve my game on these free sites because of all the "automatic raisers" I encounter. I guess that's the rub, for being able to practice on free sites. Sorry to hear that there are other such players on money sites too.



peace


This actually happened on Party Poker, at a real money table. Party is notorious for having some of the worst players around playing, and losing money. While I was frustrated that this moron scooped up a huge pot in a hand he had no business being in, it's players like these that make winning money so easy. Within an hour, I had taken all of my money back that I lost on him, and then some. If it wasn't for the table idiots, it would be harder to extract the chips.

So while they frustrate me to NO end when I lose, I usually get it back, and then some, so I can't really complain that much. ;-D
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Postby acsguitar » Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:55 pm

Go Fish
I'm too lazy to make a sig at the moment
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Postby Howie » Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:02 pm

Phil Hellmuth: "If luck wasn't involved, i'd win every hand." ;-D

Luck is part of poker, everyone is gonna get sucked out sometimes.
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Postby Madison » Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:33 pm

pokerplaya wrote:If it wasn't for the table idiots, it would be harder to extract the chips.


Totally agree. ;-D

They can frustrate you sometimes, but they'll always give it all back and then some in the long run. B-)
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Postby RyanK » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:04 am

i wouldve folded believing someone hit trips..

but ive had a rough month on full tilt.. mostly cause i came to college and started playing when i was drunk... that cost me a good amount of money.. i was up a good amount too now im back to where i started...

but some of the hands people play are ridiculous.. and its just a slap in teh face because you think they wouldnt play that
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Postby Snakes Gould » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:57 am

Howie wrote:Phil Hellmuth: "If luck wasn't involved, i'd win every hand." ;-D

Luck is part of poker, everyone is gonna get sucked out sometimes.


except this wasnt a suckout...he was behind before the hand started and behind after the flop...flopping 2 pair against trips is one of the toughest laydowns as far as im concerned..they're always so disguised, not to mention that idiots go all in with 32 and a2 all the time, so you never know...just a tough break
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