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Another Example of Stupid Congressmen not knowing anything

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Another Example of Stupid Congressmen not knowing anything

Postby acsguitar » Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:15 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060831/ap_ ... ucky_crash


By JEFFREY McMURRAY, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 47 minutes ago

LEXINGTON, Ky. - Two congressmen called for an investigation into the staffing at airport control towers after investigators revealed that only one controller was on duty when Comair Flight 5191 crashed in Kentucky and that he had had just two hours of sleep between shifts.


The controller had just enough time between shifts Saturday to meet the federal requirement of eight hours off, said
National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman.

"He advised our team that he got approximately two hours of sleep," Hersman said.

Early Sunday, he clearing Flight 5191 for takeoff, then turned away to do administrative work, Hersman said. He didn't see the plane turn down a runway too short for it, try to take off and then crash in flames that killing 49 of the 50 people aboard.

Thursday morning, as the investigation continued, hundreds of relatives of the victims gathered at the Lexington Opera House for a private memorial service. Also attending were some of the first emergency workers to reach the crash site, as well as family members of the only survivor, first officer James Polehinke, who remained hospitalized in critical condition.

Much of the focus elsewhere was on the lone air traffic controller at Blue Grass Airport.

The controller, a 17-year veteran whose name has not been released, worked from 6:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on Saturday, then returned to work at 11:30 p.m. on the same day to begin an eight-hour overnight shift.

Federal rules since November 2005 have required two air traffic controllers on duty in towers, but aviation experts say single staffing is still common at small regional airports.

In a letter dated Wednesday, Minnesota Rep. James Oberstar (news, bio, voting record), the ranking Democrat on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, and Illinois Rep. Jerry Costello (news, bio, voting record), ranking Democrat on the aviation subcommittee, asked the Transportation Department's acting inspector general to investigate how well the rule is being followed.

"We'll work with the congressmen to address the issues they raised," said David Barnes, inspector general spokesman.

Ken Spirito, director of a regional airport in Peoria, Ill., said late-night and early-morning shifts often have only one controller if someone calls in sick or is on vacation. He said the FAA usually decides to keep the airport open.

"The mandate that is issued by FAA is only as good as the staffing levels at that particular tower," Spirito said.

FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said that at the time of the accident, there were only two other towers — in Duluth, Minn., and Fargo, N.D. — that were not following the policy to staff with two controllers.

"We have clarified the guidance for them," Brown said.

The lone survivor of the crash, first officer James Polehinke, remained hospitalized in critical condition.

Also Wednesday, six tour buses took the victims' families to the crash site for the first time. The airport also established a memorial in a parking lot, featuring a banner reading "Remembering 5191" with pens for people to write messages.

Comair offered to pay $25,000 per passenger to each family who lost a loved one. Meanwhile, law firms lined up to represent families who may want to sue.

"We understand that no monetary relief can overcome the grief of losing a loved one," Comair spokeswoman Kate Marx said. "But we also recognize there likely will be additional financial demands at this difficult time, and we hope this form of assistance can help alleviate some of the immediate financial pressures."



Ok a couple things here.


My dad investigates plane crashes so I know a bit about this type of stuff and I talked to my dad yesterday.

Now seeing everyone freak out about the control tower is kinda dumb. The tower cleared the pilot properly. The end. The fact that only one person was in the tower is pointless as he did his job in relation to this plane. He cleared him on the Correct runway.

The pilot needs to make sure he is on the correct runway. Basically black box confirms that the pilot thought he was on the right runway even though he was not. These pilots are the same that border the wrong plane earlier in the day and even powered it up before realizing they weren't on the correct plane.

Its funny that every news story is focusing on the Tower and its 1 person on a few hours of sleep rather then the moronic pilot who couldn't taxi to the correct runway.

As for the crash they haven't really figured out if the plane was even airborne. Basically the plane may have just hit the end of the runway at 160 MPH and smashed into the trees or it may have lifted and stalled.

Either way I wish these articles, and congress, would get the blame right. The tower's job is not to watch you taxi. Its to give you the ok to taxi to the CORRECT runway. The pilot has two methods of finding the correct runway.

GIANT numbers on the runway and also corresponding degrees of direction.

For example he was supposed to take off on Runway 26 which = 260's which is northwest. Instead he took off on 22 which = 22 degrees.

Either way he has ways to figure out he's on the wrong runway. It sucks but its the pilots fault 95% at least.
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Postby Madison » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:00 pm

I heard about this on the radio. Did he in fact clear the plane for the correct runway? Hadn't seen or heard that confirmed yet. :-?
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Postby 3 run homer » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:04 pm

yeah i heard a pilot on a radio show say the same thing as ACS about the 22 or 26 runway and then he said that if you were on the runway there would be an alarm alerting the pilot "screaming at the pilot" that something was wrong. The pilot on the radio totally did not place blame on tower but rather on the pilot.

And yeah congress needs to get their crap straight before they open their yaps. well really good advice for anyone. :-D
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Postby acsguitar » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:15 pm

Madison wrote:I heard about this on the radio. Did he in fact clear the plane for the correct runway? Hadn't seen or heard that confirmed yet. :-?


If you check the article on CNN.Com it talks about how he cleared him correctly.

Yet they keep bringing up that he was on 2 hours of sleep and their was only 1 person there. That one person however, did his job. The pilot did not do his job.



Yet they never seem to be blaming the pilot hardly even mentioned

Here's the cnn one much better then yahoo's

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/30/plane.crash/index.html
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Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:52 pm

I think the point of all of the attention on the fact that there was only one controller in the tower isn't to try to place blame, but rather to try to understand why there was only one controller there when federal law stipulates there there should be two. Had there been two in this case, the accident may have been averted, but that's niether here nor there. From what I've heard, nobody is saying "it's the air traffic controller's fault." Instead they're saying "the laws aren't being followed, we need to figure out why, and if keeping two controllers in the tower may help prevent an accident like this in the future." Also, this raises the question: if airports aren't following federal regulations when it comes to how many controllers they have in the tower, where else are they lax on regulations? Security? Baggage checkers? Not many people are interested in assigning blame, they're interested in making air travel more safe.

And I agree with the basic gist of your post: If one were to place the blame for this accident anywhere, it would go on the pilot first, co-pilot second.
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Re: Another Example of Stupid Congressmen not knowing anythi

Postby Coppermine » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:26 pm

acsguitar wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060831/ap_ ... ucky_crash
"The mandate that is issued by FAA is only as good as the staffing levels at that particular tower," Spirito said.


That's what this comes down to... The FAA says two must be on duty, but they only staff as many controllers as the FAA's budget allows.

I'm also irritated that the so-called investigation is always just a race to see who, and what, can be blamed first. If the tower cleared the plane on runway XX because it was long enough and moron pilot pulls onto runway YY which is 10 feet long, then whose to blame here? The FAA? The controller? His sleeping habits? Why does that matter, he wasn't asleep, he was doing his job. Who else can we blame... how about workers calling in sick and "safety regulations."

Maybe they should be trying to figure out why the plane turned onto the wrong runway, and not why the controller was just doing his job.
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Postby emb0lus » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:59 pm

i can see it now. some congressman will be taking it upon himself to take a stand to make sure that lthe air traffic controllers get 8 hours of sleep between shifts and do not work more than 30 hours straight. sort of like what happen with medical residents not allowed to work more than 80 hours a week. in the end, it really only will create more problems for everyone.

by the way, anyone see Pushing Tin? I enjoyed that movie, but I like Cusack most of the time.
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Postby Madison » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:32 am

emb0lus wrote:by the way, anyone see Pushing Tin? I enjoyed that movie, but I like Cusack most of the time.


One of my favorite movies of all time. ;-D Oddly enough, I don't have it on DVD. Just plain old videotape that I watch every so often. Guess I'll be buying a DVD copy pretty soon. :-D


Definitely sounds like the pilot's fault to me. I don't blame the air traffic controller. Unfortunately, instead of making sure to get comments about pilot error in the soundbytes, the media wants to point out that there was only one controller on duty and he was running on two hours of sleep.
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Postby Fireball Express » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:47 am

No one wants to blame the dumb dead guy, huh.

The congressmen need to make a huff about something otherwise it looks like they don't care. This being an election year I can see them making this a very big issue.
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Postby Dan Lambskin » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:11 am

emb0lus wrote:i can see it now. some congressman will be taking it upon himself to take a stand to make sure that lthe air traffic controllers get 8 hours of sleep between shifts and do not work more than 30 hours straight. sort of like what happen with medical residents not allowed to work more than 80 hours a week. in the end, it really only will create more problems for everyone.

by the way, anyone see Pushing Tin? I enjoyed that movie, but I like Cusack most of the time.


i like it because it had Angelina Jolie's nips
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