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Best closer of '06

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Who do u think the best closer is this season

Papelbon
37
26%
Nathan
35
25%
Jenks
2
1%
Rivera
20
14%
M. Gonzo
8
6%
F. Rodrigues
10
7%
Hoffman
4
3%
Wagner
6
4%
Ryan
14
10%
Putz
5
4%
 
Total votes : 141

Postby sportsguy138 » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:43 pm

Mreater71 wrote:Where's all these Putz lovers, complaining but no one is voting for him? Huh, maybe some other closer should be on the poll instead of Putz.


just because people aren't voting for him doesn't mean he doesnt have his fans.. he's just not number 1 IMO.. maybe thats the reason why
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Postby Lofunzo » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:48 pm

Havok1517 wrote:
disgruntledjetsfan wrote:mariano has blown 3 saves this year and is the best closer in baseball. enuff said.


...spoken like a true Yankees fan.


I quoted this post because, well, I can, but I will agree in 1 sense. Rivera isn't the best fantasy closer out there right now. That said, if I can expand this, is there 1 closer that you would rather have out there if you need to close out a big game?? 1 game. Who do you choose?? If anyone chooses any closer not named Rivera, they are crazy. :-°
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:00 am

Lofunzo wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
disgruntledjetsfan wrote:mariano has blown 3 saves this year and is the best closer in baseball. enuff said.


...spoken like a true Yankees fan.


I quoted this post because, well, I can, but I will agree in 1 sense. Rivera isn't the best fantasy closer out there right now. That said, if I can expand this, is there 1 closer that you would rather have out there if you need to close out a big game?? 1 game. Who do you choose?? If anyone chooses any closer not named Rivera, they are crazy. :-°

I guess the 2001 Game 7, to win the World Series, isn't a big game? How about 2004 Game 4 of the ALCS, which would have taken the Yankees to the World Series?

If I need one closer to close a game, I'll take the one with the best save/close percentage of all time.

No need to dig-up the never-ending argument that is the H.O.F.fman/Rivera debate: some people are too stubborn to acknowledge Rivera's shortcomings.
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:05 am

davidmarver wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
disgruntledjetsfan wrote:mariano has blown 3 saves this year and is the best closer in baseball. enuff said.


...spoken like a true Yankees fan.


I quoted this post because, well, I can, but I will agree in 1 sense. Rivera isn't the best fantasy closer out there right now. That said, if I can expand this, is there 1 closer that you would rather have out there if you need to close out a big game?? 1 game. Who do you choose?? If anyone chooses any closer not named Rivera, they are crazy. :-°

I guess the 2001 Game 7, to win the World Series, isn't a big game? How about 2004 Game 4 of the ALCS, which would have taken the Yankees to the World Series?

If I need one closer to close a game, I'll take the one with the best save/close percentage of all time.

No need to dig-up the never-ending argument that is the H.O.F.fman/Rivera debate: some people are too stubborn to acknowledge Rivera's shortcomings.


LOL. Humor. So, you take a shattered single?? What about sample size?? If you are talking about Hoffman, how much of a sample size does he have on the stage??

If there was a way to ask 100 non-biased people here, I would. I like Hoffman a lot but there is no way that I would choose for him to close out a game over Rivera.
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:14 am

Lofunzo wrote:LOL. Humor. So, you take a shattered single??

That's a nice way of overlooking an error, a hit batsman, a walk, and a single, all while only getting one out.

What about sample size?? If you are talking about Hoffman, how much of a sample size does he have on the stage??

Well, he has 480 career saves at a 1+% better than Rivera. Stage or no stage, you need to give him the opportunities first. He's had one opportunity on the big stage, against arguably one of the best teams in history. If you're going to write him off on the "stage" to that one, well I'd have to call you crazy, back.

I like Hoffman a lot but there is no way that I would choose for him to close out a game over Rivera.

Ok, and I'll choose Hoffman and enjoy the 1%+ games a year more he'd close out. Maybe I just appreciate winning more than you.
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:28 am

davidmarver wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:LOL. Humor. So, you take a shattered single??

That's a nice way of overlooking an error, a hit batsman, a walk, and a single, all while only getting one out.

What about sample size?? If you are talking about Hoffman, how much of a sample size does he have on the stage??

Well, he has 480 career saves at a 1+% better than Rivera. Stage or no stage, you need to give him the opportunities first. He's had one opportunity on the big stage, against arguably one of the best teams in history. If you're going to write him off on the "stage" to that one, well I'd have to call you crazy, back.

I like Hoffman a lot but there is no way that I would choose for him to close out a game over Rivera.

Ok, and I'll choose Hoffman and enjoy the 1%+ games a year more he'd close out. Maybe I just appreciate winning more than you.


Who cares about the extra 1%+ when it doesn't even matter?? Does the extra 100 IP in the postseason not matter?? Bring out all of the cats that you want. Hoffman needs another 100 IP of meaningful work. You really fix the stats the way that you want them. You mentioned 1% but I am talking about the bigger stage. What about that??

If you think that Mariano has sucked on the big stage, you are mistaken. Hoffman's postseason record isn't exactly spotless. They are both great. Rivera is better. :^ :^

Since you care so much about 1 series, how did Hoffman do in the WS in 1998??
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Postby mweir145 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:55 am

Mreater71 wrote:Where's all these Putz lovers, complaining but no one is voting for him? Huh, maybe some other closer should be on the poll instead of Putz.

:-?

He's been great, but he hasn't been #1.
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Postby mweir145 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:59 am

Hmm...Marver presents a pretty good argument, but he's forgetting that blown save at the AS game this year. I mean that game decided home advantage for the WS, if that's not the "big stage" then I don't know what is. :-b
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:35 am

Lofunzo wrote:Who cares about the extra 1%+ when it doesn't even matter??

Lol. It matters. Especially when that takes into account every opportunity in their entire career.
Does the extra 100 IP in the postseason not matter?? Bring out all of the cats that you want. Hoffman needs another 100 IP of meaningful work.

Because regular season games don't matter? Trevor has thrown more innings in his career as a closer than Mariano. What is the point you are trying to make here?

You really fix the stats the way that you want them. You mentioned 1% but I am talking about the bigger stage. What about that??

I would have thought that showing you that Mariano, whom is acclaimed by many to be the best postseason pitcher -- to which I disagree -- has had his fair share of shortcomings that, statistically, the postseason is just like any other game. Players don't magically get better from the regular season to postseason. Sure, players can have good stretches, but postseason success for five years doesn't ensure postseason success in the future. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to put two and two together for you guys...again. And how exactly are the stats fixed here, or anywhere for that matter? I'm using their entire careers, and that shows H.O.F.fman with a save/close percentage of over 1% better.

If you think that Mariano has sucked on the big stage, you are mistaken. Hoffman's postseason record isn't exactly spotless. They are both great. Rivera is better. :^ :^

He hasn't sucked on the big stage, but he gets far more credit for the World Series titles than he does blame for the postseason losses, even though it should be the other way around.

Since you care so much about 1 series, how did Hoffman do in the WS in 1998??
Lol. He gave up two runs to one of the best teams ever in a series in which the Padres hadn't a chance of winning.

Like I said, though, no need to re-hash the Rivera/Hoffman debate. It'll just end with (Yankee fan) name-calling and (Yankee fan) stubborn-ness...again.
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Postby Strasil42 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:48 am

Lofunzo wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
disgruntledjetsfan wrote:mariano has blown 3 saves this year and is the best closer in baseball. enuff said.


...spoken like a true Yankees fan.


I quoted this post because, well, I can, but I will agree in 1 sense. Rivera isn't the best fantasy closer out there right now. That said, if I can expand this, is there 1 closer that you would rather have out there if you need to close out a big game?? 1 game. Who do you choose?? If anyone chooses any closer not named Rivera, they are crazy. :-°


His lifetime postseason ERA of 0.81 is the Major League record. From 1998 to 2001, Rivera converted 23 consecutive postseason saves and pitched 34 1/3 consecutive scoreless innings in the postseason, both Major League records. Rivera's 34 postseason saves are more than twice that of the next person, Dennis Eckersley. The pitchers who rank second through fourth for most postseason saves (Eckersley, Jason Isringhausen, and Robb Nen) have combined for 37 career saves. Rivera has very often been used to record 2-inning saves in the postseason, recording 12 of this variety.

I'll take this guy.
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